iso14000-digest Thursday, January 29 1998 Volume 02 : Number 023
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:37:50 -0500
From: gjkettle@goodyear.com
Subject: RE: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
On 27-Jan-98, Gene -- ISO 14000 Moderator wrote:
>I'll jump in here as the moderator, suggesting that I believe it will be
>difficult (impossible??) to separate professional discussion from
>self-promotion. The horns of the dilemma are that the most
>knowledgeable and helpful will be those engaged in ISO 14000
>implementation activities -- and developing this expertise in a
>commercial context.
As a very recent addition to this group, I have to take exception to the
statement that "most knowledgeable and helpful will be those engaged in ISO
14000 implementation activities -- and developing this expertise in a
commercial context"
As a company, we have tried the consultant approach, and been faced with having
a system put on us that we don't own nor service. The approach of some of our
consultants - major players in the European quality and EMS fields - is to do
what they knew was good for us, only it didn't find agreement with the supposed
amateurs.
I stand by my second posting to this group that you learn more about any
management system by getting down and doing it yourself - hence developing the
very crucial 'ownership' property. We have discovered that the most helpful and
knowledgeable are in fact the certification bodies, who will determine your
compliance. Tho' hard work, the DIY approach generates big cost savings.
In my humble opinion, you can, most certainly, distinguish between professional
discussion and advertising. I joined this group to get feedback from fellow
professionals not to endure constant advertising.
Can we please start this ...
Yours respectfully,
Dr GJ Kettle
Quality/EMS Systems
Goodyear Technical Centre
L-7750 Colmar-Berg
Email: gjkettle@goodyear.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:15:57 -0400
From: Reinaldo Ramirez
Subject: Marketing in The ISO 14000 discusssion group
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Thanks to Dr. Kettle for your words: In my humble opinion, you can, most
certainly, distinguish between professional discussion and advertising.
I joined this group to get feedback from fellow professionals not to
endure constant advertising.
This is the point.
Reinaldo Ramirez
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Thanks to Dr. Kettle for your words: In my humble opinion, you can, most
certainly, distinguish between professional discussion and advertising.
I joined this group to get feedback from fellow professionals not
to endure constant advertising.
This is the point.
Reinaldo Ramirez
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:40:09 -0500
From: Diana Baldi
Subject: implementation strategies
The common theme is buyer beware...and it rings true over and over. The
competency of the people involved, (internal or external) and the
commitment of management make the most difference in the type of management
system developed and the value back to the business.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you that unexperienced consultants can ram
a totally inappropriate "system" down a company's throat. As a
consultant, a few companies have DEMANDED a minimally conforming management
system this and it is difficult for me on a personally. They think they
can throw money to external sources and get the benefits others talk about.
COMPANY INVOLVEMENT isthe main part of the process, the more you have, the
better it works.
As someone who has worked for government, global industry, a registrar, and
consulting, I have also seen the work of those "few" incompetent auditors
for registrars that force companies into cumbersome systems by the
nonconformances they write. In over a hundred companies audited, I
continue to be amazed at what the company said they had to do to please
their registrar.
The OPTIMUM scenario is when there is competency on all sides, and it is
such a pleasure to experience. The system effectively drives the company
toward their goals and adds value back.
Respectfully,
Diana Baldi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:52:40 -0400
From: Reinaldo Ramirez
Subject: Ethic at the moment to talk about people in the discussion group
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We all are persons with many years of experiences and contacts with
companies and people of differents countries, but these facts are not
enough in order to express "about others". I suggest to be cautious with
expresions like THOSE FEW INCOMPETENT AUDITORS because may be we are
inside of that domain without our knowledge. To be useful for all
interested in EMS, this channel of communication MUST be, first of all,
an ethic means of communication.
I thank Dr. Kettle in his words: In my humble opinion, you can, most
certainly, distinguish between professional discussion...... (in my own
words) and non-ethic ones .
Reinaldo Ramirez
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We all are persons with many years of experiences and contacts with companies
and people of differents countries, but these facts are not enough
in order to express "about others". I suggest to be cautious with
expresions like THOSE FEW INCOMPETENT AUDITORS because may be
we are inside of that domain without our knowledge. To be useful for all
interested in EMS, this channel of communication MUST be, first of all,
an ethic means of communication.
I thank Dr. Kettle in his words: In my humble opinion, you can, most
certainly, distinguish between professional discussion...... (in my own
words) and non-ethic ones .
Reinaldo Ramirez
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:09:37 -0500
From: Stan Carson
Subject: Re: Ethic at the moment to talk about people in the discussion group
Thank you, sometimes our own arrogance gets the best of us.
At 12:52 PM 28/01/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by cyberq.quality.org
id LAA01331
>
>We all are persons with many years of experiences and contacts with
>companies and people of differents countries, but these facts are not
>enough in order to express "about others". I suggest to be cautious with
>expresions like THOSE FEW INCOMPETENT AUDITORS because may be we are
>inside of that domain without our knowledge. To be useful for all
>interested in EMS, this channel of communication MUST be, first of all,
>an ethic means of communication.
>I thank Dr. Kettle in his words: In my humble opinion, you can, most
>certainly, distinguish between professional discussion...... (in my own
>words) and non-ethic ones .
>Reinaldo Ramirez
>
>We all are persons with many years of experiences and contacts with companies
>and people of differents countries, but these facts are not enough
>in order to express "about others". I suggest to be cautious with
>expresions like THOSE FEW INCOMPETENT AUDITORS because may be
>we are inside of that domain without our knowledge. To be useful for all
>interested in EMS, this channel of communication MUST be, first of all,
>an ethic means of communication.
>
I thank Dr. Kettle in his words: In my humble opinion, you can, most
>certainly, distinguish between professional discussion...... (in my own
>words) and non-ethic ones .
>
Reinaldo Ramirez
>
Stan Carson
Program Manager - Environmental
Lake Erie MEP, a Division of EISC
1700 N. Westwood Ave.
Toledo, Ohio 43607-1207
Voice: 419-534-3705
Fax: 419-531-8465
http://www.eisc.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:09:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: Re: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
It's supported by QUALITY.ORG. It's also not a moderated list, so if your
peers on the list object to your posting a blatant advertisement,
fundamentally unrelated to the topical discussion, I imagine they will let
you know. If they also let me know that they object to your subverting the
purpose of the list just to make a few bucks, I'll probably bar you from
the list.
Regards.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Reinaldo Ramirez wrote:
> Is this group a commercial group or a professional group looking a
> better understanding of the ISO 14001?
> If Miss Baldi is promoting Excel Partnership: May I promote my Company?
> I wait a word from the System Administrator.
> Respectfully
> Reinaldo Ramirez
> Perry Johnson, Inc.
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:18:26 -0000
From: "jlsprof-1"
Subject: Re: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
While it is obviously undesirable for there to be overt marketing on the
list, I think that out and out prohibiting it will limit discussion and
will limit the value of the list. Many consultants, myself included, are
willing to take the time to discuss an issue on the internet because it
offers an opportunity for us to get our name out to people who are working
in the trenches, trying to solve some problem related to ISO 14000. If we
say something that you like and you're in the market for a consultant, we'd
like you to call us. If you don't like what we have to say, then you at
least know that we're probably not the consultant that you want to hire.
But these discussion lists provide you an opportunity to learn something
about us and they give us an opportunity to show our stuff to you.
If the incentive that the consultant has for discussing a topic on the list
is taken away, then the participants on the list will lose some consultants
discussion. Such loss may result in losing the very idea that is needed to
solve a particular problem.
So I say: out and out advertising should be a no-no. But good discussion
that might lead someone to follow up with a particular consultant should be
encouraged. That's my 2 cents.
James L. Smith
ISO 14000 Consultant
Call Me at 703-534-1629
- ----------
> From: Reinaldo Ramirez
> To: Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)
> Cc: ISO 14001 discussion group
> Subject: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:22 PM
>
> Is this group a commercial group or a professional group looking a
> better understanding of the ISO 14001?
> If Miss Baldi is promoting Excel Partnership: May I promote my Company?
> I wait a word from the System Administrator.
> Respectfully
> Reinaldo Ramirez
> Perry Johnson, Inc.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:28:49 +1000
From: Kay Meadows
Subject: Research on ISO14001
I have just completed a Master of Environmental Science thesis on
ISO14001:Drivers and Benefits - Implementation of the ISO14001 EMS Standard
in Australia. The research reports on interviews undertaken with 36
ISO14001 certified organisations throughout Australia. At Dec. 1997
Australia had a total of 46 ISO14001 certifications in 36 companies.
The focus of the research is on the drivers of ISO14001 for these
organisations and the benefits that they have actually achieved post
certification. Due to the newness of the Standard here (adopted in Oct.
'96) the benefits are largely intangible but there are some limited
'tangibles'. There are also a number of other interesting research topics
for would be ISO14001 researchers.
I joined this list when I started this work - and thank you all for your
comments which have been interesting and informative for my research.
My question is: Is anyone interested in this piece of work and what would
be the most useful form for interested people? It is approx. 24,000 words
in the traditional academic format - so not all of it would be relevant to
most people.
Regards
Kay Meadows
PS - If anyone knows of an Australian consultancy organisation that is
looking for someone with expertise in this - and many other - areas, I'd
appreciate the contact.
Kay Meadows
Australia
Email: kmeadows@iaccess.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 10:34:32 +0000
From: richard@frey.demon.co.uk
Subject: Marketing: we'll be back after this
Dear All,
We have some issues about consultants and marketing which have become
nicely intertwined with some unspoken messages on Dr Kettle's part.
I would venture to suggest that a sizeable chunk of the discussion group
membership is comprised of people actively thinking about ISO 14001 or
about to embark on an implementation project. They may be looking for
hints and tips to help them, and they will contribute problems and
questions which may be of wide interest, but their experience is likely
to be limited.
Those group members who have, like Dr Kettle, done it all themselves,
will tend to have a broader experience, but still narrower than those who
do it repeatedly for a living. Other than those who are corporately
employed in large organisations, these people will tend to be - whisper
this - consultants. If you want to know what it feels like to have an
appendix out, talk to the patient. If you want to know about this sort
of appendix problem or that sort of appendix problem, talk to the man
over there with the knife. Whether it is better to pay someone to take
your appendix out or to do it yourself is another question altogether.
Our entire commercial structure is based on the division of labour.
Given that consultants make their living by providing specialised
services, some degree of self-interest in contributing to this forum is
to be expected, as with most forum members. The question is how much. I
propose the line be drawn at overt advertising, self or commercial.
Perhaps this is the time to ask people what they really want out of this
forum.
Incidentally folks, if you hurry, there is still time for you to catch
this week's special, special offer of a four-colour personalised ISO
14001 horoscope from us experts here at Aspects R Us!
Best wishes,
Richard Frey
Frey Environmental Associates Limited
Specialists in the design and implementation
of environmental management systems.
http://www.frey.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:00:03 +0100
From: "Angel Angosto"
Subject: ISO14001 in an Industrial Cleaning Service
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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I am a spanish consultant and I establish contact with a Industrial =
Cleaning Service that it=B4s interested to achieve the ISO14001 =
certification
Does anyone know where might be found information about other similar =
enterprises ?
If a client has a "no-correct" environmental management with the wastes =
that my client collect correctly, what will be the behaviour ? Reject =
the contract ? Advise about the correct management ? or in the initial =
contract must be include a clausule that guarantee the environmental =
management of wastes after cleaning process ?
I appreciate your help. Thanks
Regards
Angel Angosto
Environmental Consultant
Jose de Nebra, 5, 3 D
E-50007 Zaragoza
Spain
Phone: 34 + 976370068
angostoa@ctv.es
=20
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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I am a spanish =
consultant and I=20
establish contact with a Industrial Cleaning Service that it´s =
interested=20
to achieve the ISO14001 certification
Does anyone know where =
might be found=20
information about other similar enterprises ?
If a client has a =
"no-correct"=20
environmental management with the wastes that my client collect =
correctly, what=20
will be the behaviour ? Reject the contract ? Advise about the =
correct=20
management ? or in the initial contract must be include a clausule that=20
guarantee the environmental management of wastes after cleaning process=20
?
I appreciate your help. =
Thanks
Regards
Angel =
Angosto
Environmental Consultant
Jose de Nebra, 5, 3 =
D
E-50007 Zaragoza
Spain
Phone: 34 + =
976370068
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:26:02 -0400 (GMT-0400)
From: Jose Bernardo Duran
Subject: Re: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
I share Reinaldo point of view. So we need to work in a really
professional environment, that does not mean to promote our companies,
that mean to be respectful with the knowledge, without to be merchadinser
only.
Thanks.
PD Please forgive me if i am wrong.
____________________________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________________________
MSc Jose Bernardo Duran
Maintenance Engineering
Reliability Centered Maintenance
Total Productive Maintenance
World Class Maintenance Strategies
Address:
Av. 2 No. 36-2 Edf. Tintoreria Maracai
Merida Edo. Merida
Venezuela 5101
Phone: 058-74-639673 and 058-16-6742990
____________________________________________________________________________
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Reinaldo Ramirez wrote:
> Is this group a commercial group or a professional group looking a
> better understanding of the ISO 14001?
> If Miss Baldi is promoting Excel Partnership: May I promote my Company?
> I wait a word from the System Administrator.
> Respectfully
> Reinaldo Ramirez
> Perry Johnson, Inc.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:25:37 -0500
From: "Robert Clifford, Jr."
Subject: Re: ISO14001 in an Industrial Cleaning Service
Angel Angosto wrote, regarding his client (an industrial cleaning service)
that is seeking ISO 14001 registration:
If a client (of the cleaning service) has a "no-correct"
environmental management
with the wastes that my client collect correctly, what will be the
behaviour (of the cleaning service)?
I worked with a commercial cleaning service in New York State (USA) that
cleaned large office buildings and airport terminals. They wished to be
the first to implement a combined quality / environmental management
system, ISO 9001/14001. They developed a quality policy and began to
identify their environmental aspects, which included management of
hazardous / infectious wastestreams from their clients. Unfortunately,
they found it difficult to continue effort in the project and have put it
on-hold. We did not yet get a chance to analyze the issues regarding how
they should handle poor waste management by their clients.
Keep in mind that ISO 14001, 4.3.1 requires an organization to identify
environmental aspects, "...over which it can be expected to have an
influence" in setting objectives and targets; however, the degree of
influence they must exert is a decision only the cleaning company can make.
In my view, it doesn't categorically mean that they have to void contracts
with clients, or try to educate clients, who may have poor waste handling
procedures. I would help them develop a decision process regarding their
client's wastestreams that is consistent with their policy (and applicable
law and regulation) and makes reasonable use of whatever resources they may
have to improve the poor management practices of their clients.
For environmental management in the cleaning industry, a good reference is
"Protecting the Built Environment" by Michael A. Berry, Ph.D. (ISBN
0-9635715-0-8).
Robert Clifford, Jr., Vice President
ISO Environmental Consultancy, Inc.
1103 Glenwood Blvd.
Schenectady NY 12308-2503
518-393-3392
clifford@quality.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:14:23 +0000
From: Anthony J Lambert
Subject: Wince! (Was Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group)
I am *really* not happy with this sentiment:
>Many consultants, myself included, are
>willing to take the time to discuss an issue on the internet because it
>offers an opportunity for us to get our name out to people who are working
>in the trenches, trying to solve some problem related to ISO 14000. If we
>say something that you like and you're in the market for a consultant, we'd
>like you to call us. [Snip]
>If the incentive that the consultant has for discussing a topic on the list
>is taken away, then the participants on the list will lose some consultants
>discussion. Such loss may result in losing the very idea that is needed to
>solve a particular problem.
So let me get this straight: consultants only participate in this list
because they view it as a marketing exercise? Hmm, I expect you'll get
loads of enquiries for business after that one.... Not! *grin*
*I* participate in this list - albeit irregularly - because I wish to engage
in a discussion about a specific feature of ISO 14001 or its implementation.
I participate if I feel I have something to offer the discussion based on
my experience (of which, more in a moment).
I have read with considerable interest the recent discussions about the use
of consultants. Sally Goodman, Richard Frey and Dr Kettle have all made
very good points which I do not propose to repeat here. It seems to me that
what is right for one organisation is not necessarily right for another.
>From my own experience - and I'm sorry, but to give you some context, I
can't avoid what might be interpreted as a piece of self-promotion - of
helping ten companies gain the certificate and, just as importantly, of
talking to other companies who did not use my consultancy services, some
companies will benefit from consultancy, others will not.
To echo Dr Kettle, I think the most important decision is the first one:
whether or not a consultant is needed. I think the mistake often made by
companies is that because there are one or two bits of the standard that are
baffling to them - typically, for example, the clause on environmental
aspects - a consultant should be employed to help with the whole lot. So it
is important to isolate exactly those parts of ISO 14001 for which you may
need assistance.
Having decided that a consulant is necessary, finding one can, I appreciate,
be difficult, as there are a lot of us out there, all of us claiming to have
far more experience than we could all possibly have. (I'm sure that if you
added together the claims of every consultant, there can be few companies
globally that have *not* been certified already to ISO 14001.) And although
ability, experience, credentials, cost and myriad other practical matters
are clearly important, the overriding success factor in a consultancy
project is personalities, ie whether the consultant and client personnel
work well together.
Finally, not all consultants are obsessed with marketing.
Regards
Tony Lambert
The Rubicon
Probably the best environmental consultancy in the world.
*grin*
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:08:58 -0500
From: Joe Maillet
Subject: Re: Marketing: we'll be back after this
richard@frey.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> We have some issues about consultants and marketing which have become
> nicely intertwined with some unspoken messages on Dr Kettle's part.
>
> I would venture to suggest that a sizeable chunk of the discussion group
> membership is comprised of people actively thinking about ISO 14001 or
> about to embark on an implementation project. They may be looking for
> hints and tips to help them, and they will contribute problems and
> questions which may be of wide interest, but their experience is likely
> to be limited.
>
> Those group members who have, like Dr Kettle, done it all themselves,
> will tend to have a broader experience, but still narrower than those who
> do it repeatedly for a living. Other than those who are corporately
> employed in large organisations, these people will tend to be - whisper
> this - consultants. If you want to know what it feels like to have an
> appendix out, talk to the patient. If you want to know about this sort
> of appendix problem or that sort of appendix problem, talk to the man
> over there with the knife. Whether it is better to pay someone to take
> your appendix out or to do it yourself is another question altogether.
>
> Our entire commercial structure is based on the division of labour.
> Given that consultants make their living by providing specialised
> services, some degree of self-interest in contributing to this forum is
> to be expected, as with most forum members. The question is how much. I
> propose the line be drawn at overt advertising, self or commercial.
> Perhaps this is the time to ask people what they really want out of this
> forum.
>
> Incidentally folks, if you hurry, there is still time for you to catch
> this week's special, special offer of a four-colour personalised ISO
> 14001 horoscope from us experts here at Aspects R Us!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Richard Frey
>
> Frey Environmental Associates Limited
> Specialists in the design and implementation
> of environmental management systems.
>
> http://www.frey.demon.co.uk
I'm a consultant and my reasons for subscribing are to learn about other
people's experiences in implementing the Standard as well as how it is
being interpreted. Advertising is not the point.
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:53:32 -0400
From: Reinaldo Ramirez
Subject: Industrial Cleaning Services
Apreciado Angel (Dear Angel) :
You can use the concept of the supply chain (see ISO 9000-1, table 1,
chapter 3: Definitions) in contractual situations. If client has not a
conforming Environmental Management you can not reject the contract
because this is not "the right way to manage"(William Conway´s
philosophy) this kind of situation. I suggest , you, your client and
the subcontractor to your client, study the scope and extent of their
contract and define the environmental aspect (3.3, ISO 14001) related
to their potential impacts (3.4 ISO 14001); after that, all of the
parties can realize if it is "a must" to include a clause, as you
request. (4.3 Planning; ISO 14001).
ISO 14001 and ISO 9001 are interrelated in most business situations.
Reinaldo Ramirez
Caracas, Venezuela.
Angel: puedes hablarme en español, si lo deseas. (Angel : you can talk
to me in Spanish language)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:23:22 EST
From: ASchoffm@aol.com
Subject: Re: Research on ISO14001
In a message dated 98-01-29 02:36:23 EST, you write:
<< My question is: Is anyone interested in this piece of work and what would
be the most useful form for interested people? It is approx. 24,000 words
in the traditional academic format - so not all of it would be relevant to
most people. >>
I would be interested. E-Mail attachment would be fine.
Alan Schoffman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:21:30 EST
From: GrantBlair@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
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From: GrantBlair@aol.com
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To: gjkettle@goodyear.com
Subject: Re: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:45:47 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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In a message dated 1/28/98 4:41:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gjkettle@goodyear.com writes:
<< As a very recent addition to this group, I have to take exception to the
statement that "most knowledgeable and helpful will be those engaged in ISO
14000 implementation activities -- and developing this expertise in a
commercial context"
>>
This discussion is very reminiscent of the old Amateur versus Professional
distinction for Olympic athletes, and is just about as realistic.
My practical opinion would be that any company (even one as big as Goodyear)
who chose not to provide their environmental management representives with
appropriate ISO 14000 training provided by the Excels, Perry Johnsons,
Stat-A-Matrix, etc. would be embarking on a very risky approach to
registration.
It would seem entirely reasonable for companies providing such training to
post
schedules and course availability to this list from time to time.
It would also seem reasonable that companies with more limited resources who
want to seek registration may wish to hire a consultant who has already had
appropriate training to assist, provide guidance, etc.
In both cases, professional courtesy would suggest that followup and/or
detailed
discussions would continue off-line once the initial contact was made.
Grantblair@aol.com
Ninety Six SC
- --part0_886098090_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:59:29 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: Non-member submission from ["Alekander Mortensen" ] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, OR as directed in
the posting, but definitely NOT to me.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:49:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "Alekander Mortensen"
To:
Subject: The Green Supply-Chain - Report
I join Kay Meadows and announce my BSc(Hons) environmental management =
thesis on EMSs, SMEs and supply-chain pressure.
The report draws together (hopefully) the development and context of =
EMSs in industry and survey a range of large international and UK based =
organisations, investigating their environmental supplier requirements.
Many kind contributions has been made by members of this list, and I am =
happy to email anyone interested a copy. It comes in Word 7 format for =
the moment, but I will post it on my webpages eventually. Taking a =
couple of day off first, the report is being submitted tomorrow so it is =
hot of the harddisk!
Thanks for all help!
Cheers,
.
Aleksander Mortensen
.
University of Dundee
School of Town and Regional Planning
BSc(Hons) Environmental Management Part IV.
.
Personal mail: aleksander@oslo.online.no
Business mail: iso14001@online.no
.
Website: http://home.sol.no/~siljam/index.htm
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I join Kay Meadows and =
announce my=20
BSc(Hons) environmental management thesis on EMSs, SMEs and supply-chain =
pressure.
The report draws together (hopefully) =
the=20
development and context of EMSs in industry and survey a range of large=20
international and UK based organisations, investigating their =
environmental=20
supplier requirements.
Many kind contributions has been made =
by members=20
of this list, and I am happy to email anyone interested a copy. It comes =
in Word=20
7 format for the moment, but I will post it on my webpages eventually. =
Taking a=20
couple of day off first, the report is being submitted tomorrow so it is =
hot of=20
the harddisk!
Thanks for all help!
Cheers,
.
Aleksander =
Mortensen
.
University of Dundee
School of Town and Regional=20
Planning
BSc(Hons) Environmental Management =
Part=20
IV.
.
Personal mail: aleksander@oslo.online.noBusiness=20
mail: iso14001@online.no
.
Website=
: http://home.sol.no/~siljam/=
index.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:04:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: Non-member submission from [Michael Snider ] (fwd)
NOTE: We're getting way too many "non-member submissions" to this list.
Please REMEMBER that you need to POST your messages from exactly the same
address you subscribed from. If you don't, it's a "non-member submission"
and I can't guarantee that those will always get routed to the list, since
that forwarding is a MANUAL task and I have other, more urgent things to
do most days.
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, OR as directed in
the posting, but definitely NOT to me.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:12:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Snider
To: iso14000@quality.org
Subject: Marketing on the list
I'd like to offer the following regarding marketing on this list: I am a
chairman for the Environmental Auditing Roundtable's NY Metro regional
chapter. Our membership is composed of both consultants and
facility/company personnel, in equal proportions. Our members have told
me that the main reason they take time out of their schedule three times a
year to attend the meetings is that they consider the exhange of ideas to
be invaluable. I am sure that the exchange would not be so valuable
without the contributions of all of our members, regardless of their
affiliation. So also for this list.
Also, self-aggrandizement is not the sole province of consultants. Many
list posters, for whatever reason, have an axe to grind. I think the
postings will stand for themselves, and we shouldn't get too hung up on
trying to control the exchange. We list participants should be aware that
very strong impressions are formed by our posts, and overt attempts to
advance an agenda are quickly identified and poorly received.
Michael Snider
e-mail: sniderm@wv.doe.gov
Tel: 716-942-2024
Fax: 716-942-2000
West Valley Nuclear Services
MS-AOC-16
10282 Rock Springs Road
West Valley, NY 14171-0191
------------------------------
End of iso14000-digest V2 #23
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