iso14000-digest Wednesday, February 4 1998 Volume 02 : Number 024
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:12:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: Non-member submission from [jm9@ornl.gov (John W. Mashburn)] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, OR as directed in
the posting, but definitely NOT to me.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:07:12 -0500 (EST)
To: Kay Meadows
From: jm9@ornl.gov (John W. Mashburn)
Cc: iso14000@quality.org
Subject: Re: Research on ISO14001
Kay,
An effort to publish theses on the internet is being undertaken by many
universities. See
http://etd.vt.edu/etd/
Perhaps this would be an option to distribute your research results.
John
At 06:28 PM 1/29/1998 +1000, Kay Meadows wrote:
>I have just completed a Master of Environmental Science thesis on
>ISO14001:Drivers and Benefits - Implementation of the ISO14001 EMS Standard
>in Australia. The research reports on interviews undertaken with 36
>ISO14001 certified organisations throughout Australia. At Dec. 1997
>Australia had a total of 46 ISO14001 certifications in 36 companies.
>
>The focus of the research is on the drivers of ISO14001 for these
>organisations and the benefits that they have actually achieved post
>certification. Due to the newness of the Standard here (adopted in Oct.
>'96) the benefits are largely intangible but there are some limited
>'tangibles'. There are also a number of other interesting research topics
>for would be ISO14001 researchers.
>
>I joined this list when I started this work - and thank you all for your
>comments which have been interesting and informative for my research.
>
>My question is: Is anyone interested in this piece of work and what would
>be the most useful form for interested people? It is approx. 24,000 words
>in the traditional academic format - so not all of it would be relevant to
>most people.
>
>Regards
>Kay Meadows
>
>PS - If anyone knows of an Australian consultancy organisation that is
>looking for someone with expertise in this - and many other - areas, I'd
>appreciate the contact.
>
>Kay Meadows
>Australia
>Email: kmeadows@iaccess.com.au
>
John W. Mashburn, P.E.
ORNL Office of Quality Services
P.O. Box 2008
Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6052
leftTel. 423/576-5386
Fax 423/576-4923
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:16:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: RE: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
The information file for the ISO14000 list is available by sending a
message to: MAJORDOMO@QUALITY.ORG
with ONLY these two words in the BODY of your message:
INFO ISO14000
I believe the file is clear on what the purpose of the list is and how I
*prefer* you deal with your urge to advertise on it. As it is NOT a
moderated list--right now, it's not, but if enough people complain about
junkmail being posted AND they are willing to volunteer as the list
moderator, I have no objection to making it a moderated list. However, I
have neither the time nor the expertise to moderate a list on that topic.
The short answer is: If you are answering a question or contributing to a
discussion and, in the course of which, you mention that you or your
company do such-and-such that is in the context of the point under
discussion, I find that acceptable. On the other hand, posting a message
that is nothing but advertisement, I find to be subverting the fundamental
purpose of the discussion list. And, if you keep it up, I'll send you a
bill for advertising on my site without adequately compensating me for the
resources I've provided to you without charge. How do like them apples?!?
Those who repeatedly abuse the purpose of DISCUSSION LISTS will be cast
out into the darkness. So, mind your Ps and Qs.
Regards.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Tatsch, C. E. (Gene) wrote:
> I'll jump in here as the moderator, suggesting that I believe it will be
> difficult (impossible??) to separate professional discussion from
> self-promotion. The horns of the dilemma are that the most
> knowledgeable and helpful will be those engaged in ISO 14000
> implementation activities -- and developing this expertise in a
> commercial context.
>
> The delicate balance will be difficult for each of us to maintain, as
> you note. I suggest that we continue discussion: if you believe your
> company offers a unique perspective and contribution, then it seems to
> me that that, too, is something to be communicated to the whole
> discussion group.
> Perhaps I'm making too-fine a distinction, but I'd hope we'd not
> "promote" our organizations,
> yet we each should have some distinctives that the rest should know
> about, as appropriate.
>
> Gene --
> ISO 14000 moderator
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: Reinaldo Ramirez[SMTP:rrramirez@cantv.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 2:22 PM
> > To: Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)
> > Cc: ISO 14001 discussion group
> > Subject: Marketing in the IS0 14000 discussion group
> >
> Is this group a commercial group or a professional group looking
> a
> better understanding of the ISO 14001?
> If Miss Baldi is promoting Excel Partnership: May I promote my
> Company?
> I wait a word from the System Administrator.
> Respectfully
> Reinaldo Ramirez
> Perry Johnson, Inc.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:41:10 EST
From: ASchoffm@aol.com
Subject: Advertising on The List
OK, enough already.
The person who was taken to task has acknowledged the problem and even
responded without attaching her employer's name. If the message has gotten
through, let's not continue to clog our e-mail boxes.
Alan Schoffman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:33:25 -0500
From: Diana Baldi
Subject: cost of implementation
Several companies have requested information on costs of implementation.
There are many ways to "count". Please share your experiences on how
you've estimated costs and ways management has responded to those projected
or actual costs.
Two real examples:
1. 14001 registration achieved--management told it cost "nothing". When
client was questioned further, they acknowledged that ~$20K in external
costs for training and registration services were spent, but no other
"costs". They did not count the time for several people working full-time
since the overall headcount did not increase.
2. Another estimate had $200K of 250K total estimated costs due to 1 hour
awareness training for their shop floor employees. They did not count the
time for documenting procedures or bringing equipment into calibration
schemes or the other required efforts for implementation.
Neither of these scenarios represents true cost of implementation. If the
company maintains the lion share of the work it would probably represent
80-90% of the actual costs. These costs can be hidden costs. Does anyone
have any guidance on this very sensitve issue--especially for those just
starting out?
Diana Baldi
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 10:01:57 +0100
From: Pall_M._Rikhardsson@europe.notes.pw.com
Subject: ISO 14001 and broadcasting corporations
Hi
Does anyone know of any broadcasting corporations (TV stations in particular)
that have been certified or are in the process of implementing ISO 14001?
Regards
Pall M. Rikhardsson
Price Waterhouse
Pall_M._Rikhardsson@europe.notes.pw.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:05:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bill Casti, CQA (System Administrator)"
Subject: re: Lengthy article
Markku J. Saarelainen has a 47K article entitled
"ISO 14000 Standards in the Semiconductor Industry", dated June/96.
if you want a copy of it sent to you, contact him DIRECTLY at his email
address:
mjsus@ix.netcom.com
DO NOT email your request to this list!
Thank you.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:28:46 +0000
From: Matthias Gelber
Subject: Re: ISO 14001 and broadcasting corporations
Dear Pall,
ULSTER TELEVISION PLC (UTV) based in Belfast was worldwide (to the best
of my knowledge) the first TV station which got certified some time ago
to BS 7750. Due to the withdrawl of BS 7750 in June 97, they should now
be certified to ISO 14001.
Pall_M._Rikhardsson@europe.notes.pw.com wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Does anyone know of any broadcasting corporations (TV stations in particular)
> that have been certified or are in the process of implementing ISO 14001?
>
> Regards
>
> Pall M. Rikhardsson
> Price Waterhouse
> Pall_M._Rikhardsson@europe.notes.pw.com
- --
Matthias Gelber
14000 & ONE Solutions
PO BOX 1005
Stoke-on-Trent UK
ST4 2XY
Phone: +44 70000 14000
Fax: +44 70000 14001
Alternative Fax and Voicemail: +44 171 6917249
Email: mgelber@ibm.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 13:51:53 UT
From: "Philip Massey"
Subject: Environmental Management in Asia
To anyone with interest in an interest in Environmental Management in Asia:
As a consultant/researcher specialising in Asian environmental issues, for
anyone who is interested, one of my clients has produced a free mini-report on
the current status of environmental management in China, Indonesia and
Thailand. Copies are available by e-mailing AET@asianenviro.com.
Being new to this list and having following recent debates on advertising - I
hope this message is seen as it is intended i.e. information dissemination.
Philip Massey
ABIA@classic.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:32:38 -0500
From: "Robert Clifford, Jr."
Subject: Re: cost of implementation
Diana Baldi wrote:
>Does anyone have any guidance on this very sensitve issue [cost
>of ISO 14001 implementation] --especially for those just starting out?
Two benchmarks that I'm aware of:
(1) Companies reported, on average, about $187,000 is costs for ISO 9001/2
implementation -- Dun & Bradstreet survey information published in 1996 by
Quality Systems Update. Unfortunately, I'm unfamiliar with the survey and
have assumed these were internal, external, and registrar costs accrued by
some large facilities. By the way, they also reported an average payback
period of 3.28 years.
(2) Deloitte & Touche / Quality Systems Update survey of SME's, conducted
in 1993, found on average $17,900 in consulting and training costs and
$8,200 on registration for ISO 9001/2 -- again, I'm afraid this is
second-hand information so I don't have any other details, other than the
gross recepts for the survey companies was $11-million.
The problem is that data is scarce -- ISO 14001 is still relatively new so
we're extrapolating ISO 9001/2 information; the market is also new
(consultants/registrars/trainers offering services at discount to capture
market share or develop a project history); and most companies don't break
out implementation costs from salary overhead, so they don't know what
they've spent.
A second problem is that costs are variable, depending on -- the
sophistication of the existing EMS; the degree to which the work is done
"in-house" or by consultants; the scope of the EMS; and, all the other
factors that make projects unique.
I'll add one thing, which speaks to Ms. Baldi's question and the earlier
debate between in-house vs. consultants. There is no such thing as a
consultant-prepared EMS, practically or altruistically speaking. An EMS is
only a tool -- even if signed, sealed and delivered by a consultant in a
big honking binder, it is up to the client company to then use it to
improve environmental performance and gain competitive advantage. If the
client company fails to take a hand in its development, a generic EMS
probably won't enable it to accomplish these goals.
By the way, my informal benchmark for in-house vs. consultant effort is 3:1
- -- if a consultant expends $20,000 (see #2, above) in effort, the client
company should expect to incur $60,000 in internal effort (that's close to
one-half a year for three members of the implementation team) ! My ratio
is derived from my experience and the traditional division of
student:professor effort, which I apply to the college course I teach. I
lecture for 3 hours and expect students to study/do homework an additional
9 hours. Now, if that "sticker shock" shys companies away from pursuing an
EMS, it's probably for the best.
Robert Clifford, Jr., Vice President
ISO Environmental Consultancy, Inc.
1103 Glenwood Blvd.
Schenectady NY 12308-2503
518-393-3392
clifford@quality.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:59:29 -0500
From: "John Templeton"
Subject: Re: ISO 14001 and broadcasting corporations
Hello all. Am I the only one that was knocked back into his chair by this
simple question? No offense intended toward Mr. Rikhardsson, but to quote
Susan Pouter "stop the madness".
Why would a T.V. station even consider registration to this standard? Now,
if the station was also running a chemical processing or waste treatment
plant I could see it. Could someone please educate me. Is the rush for ANY
type of industry to register an E.M.S. management faddism run rampant, or
is there a tangible benefit.
I've already made it clear to myself where this activity would apply.
Namely, any type of business that can have a significant impact on
environmental conditions. I don't think that it applies to a business that
wants to be politically correct and set up a ble box program. I look
forward to some interesting feedback.
Regards,
John Templeton
- ----------
> From: Pall_M._Rikhardsson@europe.notes.pw.com
> To: iso14000@quality.org
> Subject: ISO 14001 and broadcasting corporations
> Date: January 30, 1998 4:01 AM
>
> Hi
>
> Does anyone know of any broadcasting corporations (TV stations in
particular)
> that have been certified or are in the process of implementing ISO 14001?
>
> Regards
>
> Pall M. Rikhardsson
> Price Waterhouse
> Pall_M._Rikhardsson@europe.notes.pw.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:17:50 -0400
From: Reinaldo Ramirez
Subject: A word of caution regarding templates in EMS
To build an effective EMS that will satisfy the supplier chain, in the
context of the sustanaible development criteria, you and your company
need to do the work (of design, document and implement the EMS)
yourself. Rely on template and outside help only when your company lack
internal resources. The most critical resources are : management support
and "we donīt have the time to....". The time is a non-renewable
resource and itīs a part of our EMS.
Once upon a time Deming, Juran, Ishikawa, Mongensen proclaimed : Go back
to the basic. The basic, in the ISO 14000 and ISO 9000 standards, is THE
PROCESS. If you donīt know what the process is then how to document it?
We need to use one of the most powerful tools in management: Managing by
wandering around. This kind of management (I learned it in the USA and
England in the sixties) allow you to stay near the bottom line, where
the realty of the business is. If you canīt stay near to the workers
you canīt do your job. The templates are common cause of variation; and
this kind of causes belong to the system (processes) and are
responsibility of management.
EMS are inmerse in the world of the variability because your job is to
manage processes (enviromental aspect, enviromental impacts,
environmental audits, planning, training, operational control, and so
on) then we need to retake the concept of processes in order to design,
document, implement and maintain our the EMS of our company, in order
to detect special and common causes of variation, avoid it, improve the
system, design processes in the system, evaluate how much documentation
is required, document what is necessesary to document, train the people,
implement the documentation, audit the system implemented to how it
performs, and improve again (Plan-Do-Check-Act).
Please donīt put too much emphasis in the use of templates (at the end
they are Common Causes of Variation).
Reinaldo Ramirez
Caracas. Venezuela.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:51:24 -0000
From: "luis santos"
Subject: EMS Procedures
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BD2F5B.8A7E3BE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
I need sample ISO 14001 procedures and a copy of a EMS manual.
I really appreciate all inputs about this subject
Thank you=20
Lu=EDs Santos
lmartinssantos@mail.telepac.pt
- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BD2F5B.8A7E3BE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
I need sample ISO 14001 procedures and a copy of a =
EMS=20
manual.
I really appreciate all inputs about this =
subject
Thank you
Luís=20
Santos
lmartinssantos@mail.telepa=
c.pt
- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BD2F5B.8A7E3BE0--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:37:27 -0400
From: Reinaldo Ramirez
Subject: A copy of an ISO 14000 EMS manual
Luis:
You can try this book if you are in Mexico, Venezuela or another
speaking spanish country: GUIA ISO 14000: Las nuevas normas
internacionales para la administración ambiental (Apéndice F: Muestra
de manual de control ambiental ). Joseph Cascio; Gayle Woodside and
Philip Mitchell. McGraw-Hill Interamenricana Editores, S.A. de C.V.
1977.
If you are in the U.S.A. or Canada, the title is: ISO 14000: The new
international Environmental Management Standadars. Same Authors;
McGraw-Hill, Inc. U.S.A.. ISBN: 0-07-011625-3.
In the Appendix E this book has a check list for gap analysis.
Reinaldo Ramírez
Caracas, Venezuela.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:24:49 EST
From: "Richard Dooley"
Subject: Re: ISO 14001 and broadcasting corporations
John Templeton wrote:
>
> Why would a T.V. station even consider registration to this standard? Now,
> if the station was also running a chemical processing or waste treatment
> plant I could see it. Could someone please educate me. Is the rush for ANY
> type of industry to register an E.M.S. management faddism run rampant, or
> is there a tangible benefit.
>
> I've already made it clear to myself where this activity would apply.
> Namely, any type of business that can have a significant impact on
> environmental conditions. I don't think that it applies to a business that
> wants to be politically correct and set up a ble box program. I look
> forward to some interesting feedback.
John,
First, let me concur - I think ISO 14001 can have a much larger
impact on a large manufacturing operation than on a smaller waste
producer. However, I have found that ISO 14001 is new and companies
are trying to become the first in their industry to become certified
to the Standard. I used to work for a T.V. station, and with an
imagination, you could come up with ways an T.V. station could help
the environment. First - T.V. stations do go through a lot of
"copy," so it would help the environment if an EMS states, "the T.V.
station will strive to reduce hardcopy printouts of news stories and
rely more on the electronic copy." General office paper use
reduction and enhanced recycling programs could help as well. What
about a T.V. station's influence on the companies that buy air time
or commercials? A T.V. station's EMS could note that the station
has developed a program to educate the companies with which it does
business on ISO 14001 (education outreach). And an element of the
EMS talking about educating the public on the benefits of the
Standard? (I'm interested in feedback on these last two thoughts to
see if I'm out of bounds on what an EMS could do...). A T.V. station
that is allied with local community environmental groups could
solidify it's "green" image by being the first in the state/market to
become ISO 14001 certified. Stations are often looking for events to
endorse (e.g., sporting events, like 10K walks/runs to benefit
cancer), why not an international Standard that has a goal to help
the environment?
You're right - A T.V. station does not produce toxic chemicals by
the barrel. But, with some imagination, a station could help
improve the state of the environment through small changes and
through its influence on the world around it.
Best of luck,
Richard Dooley
__________________________
Richard Dooley
Environmental Management Specialist
11251 Roger Bacon Dr.; M/S 4-3; Rm. #4009
SAIC - Pollution Prevention Division Reston, VA 20190
e-mail: RICHARD.S.DOOLEY@cpmx.saic.com
Ph: 703-318-4608 Fax: 703-736-0826
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 13:47:27 +0100
From: Pall_M._Rikhardsson@europe.notes.pw.com
Subject: Re: ISO 14001 and broadcasting corporations
Mr Templeton asks: Why would a T.V. station even consider registration to this
(ISO 14001) standard?
Well, a simple answer would be: Why not? A TV station with several thousand
employees uses chemicals for e.g. film development, there is the use of fossil
fuels for transport, there is the consumption of water, solid waste generation,
not an insignificant consumption of energy leading to CO2 etc. emissions and so
on. So why would a company of this type NOT be interested in managing its
environmental aspects in an effort to minimise its environmental effects? As
the ISO 14001 provides a framework for an environmental management system for
all companies, why should it be limited to certain industries? And given the
subject matter of environmental management, why should the general adoption of
the principles of ISO 14001 be considered madness?
Pall M. Rikhardsson
Price Waterhouse
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:18:47 -0400
From: Reinaldo Ramirez
Subject: EMS in a TV station
I agree with Richard's opinions regarding why a TV Station "must"
involve
with an ISO 14000 EMS (may be certificate). An additional aspect, in
my opinion is that a TV station "instigates" to the consumerism, in
most
cases without to know the real effect of the products or services
(even the
environmental channels do this) it promotes. The first, an root
effect, in the people
watching TV (6 to 10 hours a day) is to buy products or services they
donīt need; this root effect, triggers a negative chain reaction in
the environ:
consumer - manufacturers ( or servers)- nature - consumer. At the end
of the chain: no sustainable development at all and the new
generations affected by the actual "propaganda" , watched at the
TV, of products and service without a known market (Dr. Shewhart and
Deming`s Philosophy).
I myself believe that a TV station must involve in an ISO 14000(or
other kind) EMS, taking account of its influence in the
environ, now and in the future.
Yours:
Reinaldo Ramirez
Caracas, Venezuela.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:21:47 -0500
From: "John Templeton"
Subject: Re: ISO 14001 and broadcasting corporations
Point taken Pall.
Sometimes I feel the need to probe these issues a bit deeper. As you say,
"why not" go for 14001. I guess that my feeling is that a well managed
organization should/would have already considered these issues. I think
that a lot of organizations could achieve the required level of corporate
responsibility but won't bother unless there is a plaque, award or
certificate attached.
I wish you success in this endeavour.
Regards,
John Templeton
- ----------
>
> Mr Templeton asks: Why would a T.V. station even consider registration to
this
> (ISO 14001) standard?
>
> Well, a simple answer would be: Why not? A TV station with several
thousand
> employees uses chemicals for e.g. film development, there is the use of
fossil
> fuels for transport, there is the consumption of water, solid waste
generation,
> not an insignificant consumption of energy leading to CO2 etc. emissions
and so
> on. So why would a company of this type NOT be interested in managing its
> environmental aspects in an effort to minimise its environmental effects?
As
> the ISO 14001 provides a framework for an environmental management system
for
> all companies, why should it be limited to certain industries? And given
the
> subject matter of environmental management, why should the general
adoption of
> the principles of ISO 14001 be considered madness?
>
> Pall M. Rikhardsson
> Price Waterhouse
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:07:15
From: Paul Sinclair Stewart
Subject: iso 14000 in agriculture?
I am seeking contacts or references for any discussion or projects ongoing
concerning the application of ISO 14000/14001 to agricultural products,
practices, machinery, markets, etc. Please feel free to respond thru the
List or directly to my email.
This search is for a local Environmental Farm Plan (EFP) group who are
planning to petition Government to look at ISO 14000 as a way to unify
EFP's across Canada, and to avoid any market or trade bariers resulting
from ISO developments now or in the future.
Anyone with info on how the same regs will affect forestry, aquaculture, or
other primary production are welcome as well, although my focus is
agriculture. I would be happy to share any info I compile with interested
members of the List. Thanks to all who take the time to respond.
********************************************************************
Paul S. Stewart c/o ABIOGEN ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES
Marshfield Manse, RR #3 Charlottetown,
Prince Edward Island, CANADA C1A 7J7
Tel: (902) 566-4078 email: abiogen@isn.net
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate"
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 15:02:00 EST
From: doug.foster@hydro.on.ca
Subject: Audit Follow-up Processes
ISO14000@quality.org
++++++++++
I am currently drafting the terms of reference for an audit to assess
management processes for the development, implementation and subsequent
tracking and monitoring of corrective action plans. These plans have been
developed in response to environmental compliance audits carried out within
various business units of a large electrical utility. In addition to
evaluating the management processes in place, key components of the work
will include an assessment of whether the actions implemented were directed
toward the fundamental root cause (i.e. fixing the cause rather than the
symptom), and whether the risk identified in the audit finding has been
appropriately mitigated. To a certain extent, the audit focus will reflect
on the checking and corrective action element of ISO 14001 as an input to
management review and continual improvement.
I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has had experience with
this topic, or who might have some comments. There seems to be considerable
reference in environmental auditing and ISO 14000 literature to the need for
action plans, and the need to monitor and follow up, but very little
information on processes or criteria for what would ensure an effective
process.
Feel free to respond directly or through the list - Thanks.
Doug Foster
Environmental Audit, Corporate Audit
Ontario Hydro
E-mail: doug.foster@HYDRO.ON.CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:19:54 -0500
From: Ron Haskins
Subject: Re: EMS in a TV station
Am I missing something, this sounds like so much foolishness. I haven't
seen a TV station polluting the environment... affecting the air or the
water, etc.
Consumerism may be good. It may be bad. It seems that the focus here is
not changing the buying public's focus... for that is impossible. Where
there is perceived need some enterprising entrepreneur will assuredly fill
the void. What is important is to ensure that the world is left in
reasonable shape after the resulting production carnage.
Regards,
Ron Haskins
At 03:18 PM 2/2/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I agree with Richard's opinions regarding why a TV Station "must"
>involve
>with an ISO 14000 EMS (may be certificate). An additional aspect, in
>my opinion is that a TV station "instigates" to the consumerism, in
>most
>cases without to know the real effect of the products or services
>(even the
>environmental channels do this) it promotes. The first, an root
>effect, in the people
>watching TV (6 to 10 hours a day) is to buy products or services they
>donīt need; this root effect, triggers a negative chain reaction in
>the environ:
>consumer - manufacturers ( or servers)- nature - consumer. At the end
>of the chain: no sustainable development at all and the new
>generations affected by the actual "propaganda" , watched at the
>TV, of products and service without a known market (Dr. Shewhart and
>Deming`s Philosophy).
>I myself believe that a TV station must involve in an ISO 14000(or
>other kind) EMS, taking account of its influence in the
>environ, now and in the future.
>Yours:
>Reinaldo Ramirez
>Caracas, Venezuela.
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:09:27 +1000
From: Kay Meadows
Subject: TV stations etc
>Am I missing something, this sounds like so much foolishness. I haven't
>seen a TV station polluting the environment... affecting the air or the
>water, etc.
etc.etc.
>Ron Haskins
Yes Ron, you are missing something. Just because you haven't seen it,
doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I suggest you take a look at Sheldon's
book, ISO14001 and Beyond and read the chapter by Sutton.
If ISO14001 is to go some way towards realising its potential then it needs
to be promoted and used for more than the 'default' (as Sutton would call
it) approach to environmental management, that is, it is only about what
might be termed obvious pollution.
If you take a broader view, that is, sustainable development - this is
promoted by the World Business Council - then ISO14001 is as applicable to
a TV station as it is to a chemical manufacturer. In fact, a chemical
manufacturer that has it's act together may be less polluting or more
sustainable than a TV station. How you approach it depends on your
philosophy and how big or small a contribution the ISO14001 organisation
wants to make to the world environment.
Sorry to be so green! but after all, it is an environmental standard and
was initiated and promoted within the UNEP framework of sustainable
development.
No doubt, this will cause some controversy, however I couldn't help myself.
If ISO14001 is restricted in its application then it runs the risk of
becoming a farce.
Regards
Kay
Kay Meadows
Australia
Email: kmeadows@iaccess.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:13:44 +1000
From: Kay Meadows
Subject: Research on ISO14001
Thank you to all the people who responded to me about my research. The
response is a bit overwhelming.
Consequently, I intend turning it into a PDF file which can be read with
Adobe Acrobat Reader (the Reader is a free download from the Web).
This will take a bit of time.
I am also waiting for clearance from the university.
I'll let you know when it's available which I hope will be very soon.
Thanks
Kay
Kay Meadows
Australia
Email: kmeadows@iaccess.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:50:32 +0000
From: Anthony J Lambert
Subject: EMS & TV Stations
We've had an interesting debate in the last few days over whether or not a
TV station should implement an EMS. A couple of people on the list feel
that an EMS is valid only for polluting manufacturing facilities.
Perhaps an example might help the debate.
Twenty years ago, a company that I've worked for every now and again had a
huge manufacturing facility that produced finished consumer goods. During
the manufacture of these goods, a considerable load was placed upon the
environment. In the next twenty years, in a drive to reduce business costs,
the company shut down the factory and "outsourced" its production. That
meant the production of the consumer goods was now achieved by a network of
suppliers who fed the virtually finished goods to the company for finishing
off, "badging" and sale.
Looked at blandly, the company moved from being a big polluter to one with
few pollution issues. Yet the environmental issues surrounding its products
have stayed more or less the same, since when it outsourced its
manufacturing activities, it also outsourced its pollution. (In fact, there
is an argument for saying that with all of the extra distribution involved,
the environmental load has actually increased.)
Now some on this list would argue that the absence of a chimney from the
company's new facility obviates the need for it to have an EMS. *My* point
would be the opposite: even though it outsourced its pollution, the company
cannot outsource its environmental responsibility.
To widen the point, it is therefore impossible to divorce one company from
its links in the production chain. It is often said, in fact, that the
large retailers have one of the greatest influences on environmental impact
because of the decisions they make regarding the products they stock; for
example, by promoting "greener" stock, they apply pressure to the
marketplace to encourage "greener" production. For evidence of this, one
only has to look at B&Q, a large DIY retailer in the UK.
So to bring this back to TV stations: okay, on the face of it, we're not
talking big polluter here. But the TV station will be a big purchaser and
therefore is an integral part of a (polluting) production chain. Just two
examples: where does the wood used in the panelling of its studio sets come
from? And is all the paper it uses recycled, or from sustainable sources?
And as for all that toxic waste produced during daytime TV.... *grin*
Regards
Tony Lambert
THE RUBICON
UK
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:30:47 -0500
From: "Bill Hayden Jr."
Subject: Re: EMS & TV Stations
>And as for all that toxic waste produced during daytime TV.... *grin*
TV, or not TV, that is the question.
...with apologies to Bill S.
Internet: wmhayden@ix.netcom.com
http://www.quality.org/qc/hayden/hayden.html
Phone: 716-688-0766 * Fax: 716.625.6825
Snail-mail: William M. Hayden Jr., Wendel, 95 John Muir Drive,
Suite 100, Buffalo, New York 14228, U.S.A.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein
<>----------------------------*------------------------------<>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:36:37 -0400
From: Reinaldo Ramirez
Subject: Comments to root causes and corrective actions
To some extent, any kind of business or "non-profit" activity has the
interrelation between Quality and Environ; so in my opinion, any kind
of audit performed has a primarily scope to reduces variability (in
the business or activities) (Variation is a concept of process
management).
I suggest the use of fishbone (Ishikawa) diagram in order to detect
the root cause; after its detection it is necessary to evaluate what
is the best alternative between many possible way of actions.
It is possible also the use of the concept of the relationship between
FMEA and CONTROL PLANS of QS-9000 in order to handling in the most
reaslistic way the effects and their root causes. The documents where
you can find information about FMEA is Potential Failure Mode and
Effects Analysis (Reference Manual) (equivalent of SAEJ-1739) of
QS-9000. Control Plans are contents in the Advanced Product Quality
Planning and Control Plan (APQP) of QS-9000.
Process Control is a key issue in the application of ISO 14000 and
ISO 9000, which are interrelated in the environ of any kind of
business or activity.
Reinaldo Ramirez
Caracas, Venezuela.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:37:53 -0500
From: Diana Baldi
Subject: outsourcing and supplier management
This is a great topic, since outsourcing high waste activities (like
plating or manufacturing) enabled lots of companies to reduce their waste
levels. Unfortunately the main company incurred liabilities for cleaning
up the environmental mess of their suppliers after they defaulted or went
out of business. This liability is called "superfund" in the US.
Several companies have brought back inhouse some difficult processes so
that they can manage them more effectively since managing them through
traditional contractual supplier management techniques was too difficult.
I agree with A. Lambert that companies need to look upstream and downstream
in the supplier loop as part of their EMS. What can they control or
influence? For companies with a quality-focused supplier management
system, additional suppliers will need to be added and the evaluation
criteria expanded.
This is one of my favorite topics, if there is interest out there.....let's
share examples.
Diana Baldi
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End of iso14000-digest V2 #24
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