ISO 9000-3 Digest Thursday, 2 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 002
In this issue:
ISO 9000-3 Digest Archives
Introduction
Re: Introduction
Introduction/Question
Re: Introduction
Introduction/Question
Re: Introduction
Re: Introduction/Question
SPICE
Re: SPICE
Re: Introduction
Re: SPICE
"Quality Auditor" has moved (fwd)
Re: SPICE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bill Casti (Moderator)"
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 22:53:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ISO 9000-3 Digest Archives
Greetings!
Just a note to let you know that the first issue of the ISO 9000-3
list's digest is online and accessible through gopher, ftp and WWW.
Successive issues of the digest will also be put online as they are
generated. So, if you'd like to read the messages of that list, but
just can't bring yourself to subscribe to yet another list, there's an
alternative. Go to the ISO9000-3 icon through any of the access
methods and enjoy!
Regards.
Bill
===========================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner Pager: +1 800 604 6149
QUALITY.ORG Fax: +1 703 716 0479
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUALITY RESOURCES ONLINE at: http://www.quality.org/qc
===========================================================================
------------------------------
From: Dominique Lacroix
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:17:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Introduction
>Since this is a new list, how about if everyone introduces themselves and
>tells what they do in relation to ISO 9000-3 (soon to be changed, I hear,
>to ISO 12207)?
My name is Dominique Lacroix and I work in Software QA for a high-tech
company. Most contracts here involve hardware and software. I am
currently working with one of the software engineering department in
developing software engineering procedures compliant as much as possible
to ISO 9001 and following the guidelines of ISO 9000-3. I am interested
in this list because I'd like to hear of other's experience with 9000-3
and at the same time share my own short experience with it in order to
solve our problems or help solve other people's problems.
___________________
Dominique Lacroix
lacroix@cae.ca
------------------------------
From:
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:18:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Introduction
This is Ron Berlack at Configuration Management International, Amherst, NH
USA, hrb@aol.com. I provide Seminars in Software Configuration Managment and
have also been involved in the reivew of the ISO 9000 Standards including
9000-3 and ISO 12207.
First, I should point out that 9000-3, A Qauality Management Guide to
performing software under ISO 9001, Quality Management Standard for Design
and Development (hardware oriented), is not replaced by ISO 12207, Software
Life Cycle Processes. It may refer to 9000-3, but the standard is a design
and development standard for software.
Second. Currently 9000-3 is in process of being revised to be brought up to
speed with ISO 9001-94. There are many comments out concerning this revision
especially from the software community espcially in regard to missing
elements of software quality. In addition, the 9000 series is also going
under revision of the 94 version with a target date of 1999. At that time it
may well be that 9000-3 will be absorbed into 9001-99. Stay tuned!
Ron Berlack
hrb@aol.com
------------------------------
From: gdaczkow@telesciences.com (Greta H Daczkowski)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 10:30 EST
Subject: Introduction/Question
I'm Greta Daczkowski and am a member of the Engineering Department at Securicor
Telesciences. We develop hardware and software products. Each hardware release
usually has a software componenet. We are distributed in workload as: 75%
software and 25% hardware.
We are currently on our way to 9001 registration. Our goal is to have a
preliminary assesment in February.
Does anyone know when the changes are to be finished with updating 9000-3 and
reissuing the document at ISO 12207? I've heard rumor and wonder what the facts
are.
,,,
(o o)
+-------------------------------oOO--( )--OOo------------------------------+
Greta H. Daczkowski |ISO 9001 is aimed at achieving
EMail: g.daczkowski@telesciences.com |customer satisfaction by preventing
|non-conformity at all stages from
Securicor TeleSciences, Inc. |design through servicing.
351 New Albany Road |
Moorestown, NJ 08057-1177 |"You should have objectives which
|go beyond ISO registration. You
Phone: (609) 866-1000 |should have QUALITY GOALS."
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
------------------------------
From: E-Media
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:13:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Introduction
On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 Hrb@aol.com wrote:
> Second. Currently 9000-3 is in process of being revised to be brought up to
> speed with ISO 9001-94. There are many comments out concerning this revision
> especially from the software community espcially in regard to missing
> elements of software quality. In addition, the 9000 series is also going
> under revision of the 94 version with a target date of 1999. At that time it
> may well be that 9000-3 will be absorbed into 9001-99. Stay tuned!
>
If and when that happens, we'll be prepared to change the name of the
email list, too!
Bill
============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Voicemail: (703) 513-5673
Associated Quality Consultants Fax: (703) 716-0479
Reston, Virginia Email: e_media@cais.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
See the Bill Casti Homepage at: http://www.casti.com/casti/Bill.html
============================================================================
------------------------------
From: "garry (g.k.f.) smith"
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 13:59:00 -0500
Subject: Introduction/Question
Hi all. I'm Garry Smith and I work for BNR Europe, part of Northern
Telecom (NORTEL). BNR develops software for telephone switches which
NORTEL then sell on to people like British Telecom. There are approx
450 employees under our ISO/TickIT certificate and I have the pleasure
of managing the documentation library and organising our internal
audits. All my background has been in s/w development and I have a BEng
in s/w engineering and an MSc in quality management.
Thats the intro, here is a problem:
My internal audit team numbers are dwindeling and I want to advertise
for new people to come forward, take a short course, and help with
audits. The problem is auditing has a bad image; boring, bureaucratic,
policeman-image etc.
How would you, or do you, educate/convince people of the benefits of
becoming an auditor. Can you help by adding to this list:
- - Learn what ISO is really all about
- - Add the auditing skill to your CV
- - Learn other departments processes and absorb best practices
- - Feel satisfied by helping others to improve their processes
- - Meet new people around the company
- - Have a change from your normal work duties for short periods
during the year
What do YOU get from auditing?
Thanks
Garry {~`~'~} Smith
Email gks@bnr.ca {(.) (.)} ESN (6)590-4386
PSTN (010-44) (0)1628-794386 { % } Fax (010-44) (0)1628-794532
BNR Europe Ltd, Norreys Drive {'VVV`} Maidenhead, England SL6 4AG
"Any fool can count the number `^^^' of seeds in one apple, but who
can count the number of apples in one seed?" Old Japanese Saying
------------------------------
From: "David W. Walker"
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:23:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Isn't the next rev of ISO 9000-3 going to be an official software
quality management system standard called SPICE?
Dave
/*******************************************************************
** _ ___ ___ _ _ ___
** David W. Walker ' ) ) / ) ' ) ) )
** Lead Software Quality Engineer / / / --/ / / /---
** (708) 632-5084 /(_ / / (_ (__/ (____
** walkerdw@cig.mot.com
**
** Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group
** 1475 W. Shure Dr #2L9 Arlington Heights, IL 60004
**
*******************************************************************/
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 Hrb@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Second. Currently 9000-3 is in process of being revised to be brought up to
> > speed with ISO 9001-94. There are many comments out concerning this revision
> > especially from the software community espcially in regard to missing
> > elements of software quality. In addition, the 9000 series is also going
> > under revision of the 94 version with a target date of 1999. At that time it
> > may well be that 9000-3 will be absorbed into 9001-99. Stay tuned!
> >
>
> If and when that happens, we'll be prepared to change the name of the
> email list, too!
>
> Bill
>
> ============================================================================
> Bill Casti, CQA Voicemail: (703) 513-5673
> Associated Quality Consultants Fax: (703) 716-0479
> Reston, Virginia Email: e_media@cais.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See the Bill Casti Homepage at: http://www.casti.com/casti/Bill.html
> ============================================================================
>
>
------------------------------
From: "David W. Walker"
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 14:30:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Introduction/Question
Gary,
Good SQE's are VERY hard to find. I suggest you try something similar
to what we are doing with an org size 500 engs. The organization is
broken up into 11 segments, each segment has a part-time SQE (20%)
that performs cross-audits, analyzes data, and follows up on non-
conformance and other quality issues related to their segment. I
lead this cross-functional team.
Dave
/*******************************************************************
** _ ___ ___ _ _ ___
** David W. Walker ' ) ) / ) ' ) ) )
** Lead Software Quality Engineer / / / --/ / / /---
** (708) 632-5084 /(_ / / (_ (__/ (____
** walkerdw@cig.mot.com
**
** Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group
** 1475 W. Shure Dr #2L9 Arlington Heights, IL 60004
**
*******************************************************************/
>
> Hi all. I'm Garry Smith and I work for BNR Europe, part of Northern
> Telecom (NORTEL). BNR develops software for telephone switches which
> NORTEL then sell on to people like British Telecom. There are approx
> 450 employees under our ISO/TickIT certificate and I have the pleasure
> of managing the documentation library and organising our internal
> audits. All my background has been in s/w development and I have a BEng
> in s/w engineering and an MSc in quality management.
>
> Thats the intro, here is a problem:
>
> My internal audit team numbers are dwindeling and I want to advertise
> for new people to come forward, take a short course, and help with
> audits. The problem is auditing has a bad image; boring, bureaucratic,
> policeman-image etc.
>
> How would you, or do you, educate/convince people of the benefits of
> becoming an auditor. Can you help by adding to this list:
>
> - Learn what ISO is really all about
> - Add the auditing skill to your CV
> - Learn other departments processes and absorb best practices
> - Feel satisfied by helping others to improve their processes
> - Meet new people around the company
> - Have a change from your normal work duties for short periods
> during the year
>
> What do YOU get from auditing?
>
> Thanks
> Garry {~`~'~} Smith
> Email gks@bnr.ca {(.) (.)} ESN (6)590-4386
> PSTN (010-44) (0)1628-794386 { % } Fax (010-44) (0)1628-794532
> BNR Europe Ltd, Norreys Drive {'VVV`} Maidenhead, England SL6 4AG
> "Any fool can count the number `^^^' of seeds in one apple, but who
> can count the number of apples in one seed?" Old Japanese Saying
>
------------------------------
From: Dominique Lacroix
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 16:07:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: SPICE
>Isn't the next rev of ISO 9000-3 going to be an official software
>quality management system standard called SPICE?
>
>Dave
SPICE stands for Software Process Improvement & Capability dEtermination.
So, it is a software process assessment standard more than a quality
management standard and therefore does not replace ISO 9000-3.
___________________
Dominique Lacroix
lacroix@cae.ca
------------------------------
From: John Crowley
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:07:14 +1000 (BEST)
Subject: Re: SPICE
On Thu, 2 Nov 1995, Dominique Lacroix wrote:
> >Isn't the next rev of ISO 9000-3 going to be an official software
> >quality management system standard called SPICE?
> >
> >Dave
>
> SPICE stands for Software Process Improvement & Capability dEtermination.
> So, it is a software process assessment standard more than a quality
> management standard and therefore does not replace ISO 9000-3.
>
>
> ___________________
> Dominique Lacroix
> lacroix@cae.ca
>
>
Hi, I'm John Crowley and am the QA Manager at a Software and Systems
House (Wormald Technology) in Australia currently working on an F111
Mission Simulator amongst other things.
We are in the SPICE program and have just completed Phase one trials. It
is, as you say, a style of capability maturity model rather than a
quality system standard or guide (a very good one too!).
I have also reviewed a version of the new proposed 9000.3 (review
comments were sent to ISO for consideration) and am
dismayed to find that the update is considered to be a `minor change' and,
therefore, the format of the paragraphs are not to change.
IMHO the current version of 9000.3 is very hard to read and is too
prescriptive in some areas as well as going well beyond the scope of
guidance for software.(Others have made this comment as well)
The better document we have in Australia is AS3563 which is the
equivalent to ISO9001 in that companies can be certified to this instead
of or as well as 9001. The new 9000.3 will incorporate some of 3563 (3563
format is as per 9001 plus other s/w specifics).
jc
________________________________________________________________________
The comments/opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of the
company as a whole and should be considered to be my personal
representations only unless otherwise advised in the text.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Crowley-Quality Assurance Manager-Tyco Int. and Wormald Technology
176 South Creek Road(Private Bag 11), Dee Why, New South Wales,2099, AUST.
ph: +61 2 9981 0684 fax: +61 2 9971 1759 email: john@wormald.com.au
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From:
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:33:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Introduction
SPICE is akin to the SEI/CMM at an international level. 9000-3 is Quality
Management Systems. SPICE is Process/Performance assessment. The 9000
series,as I understand it, is just one part of the compatability matrix for
SPICE.
------------------------------
From:
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:40:28 -0500
Subject: Re: SPICE
RE: Current Draft of 9000-3 being inadaquate. My input has been that this is
a quick fix to bring it in line with 9001-94. The real change, if the
document is not incorporated into 9001, will be its '99 version.
Ron Berlack, hrb@aol.com
------------------------------
From: "Bill Casti (Moderator)"
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 22:42:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: "Quality Auditor" has moved (fwd)
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 16:48:19 -0800
From: Jim Rich
Subject: "Quality Auditor" has moved
"Quality Auditor" has moved to:
http://www.geopages.com/WallStreet/2233/
A BIG thank you for your many suggestions and offers of
assistance. So far, I have been able to reply to everyone.
Thank you, too, for letting me know that the former URL was
inaccessible 90% of the time. The new address should be more
available AND faster.
Best regards,
Jim Rich
------------------------------
From: John Crowley
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 13:47:30 +1000 (BEST)
Subject: Re: SPICE
On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 Hrb@aol.com wrote:
> RE: Current Draft of 9000-3 being inadaquate. My input has been that this is
> a quick fix to bring it in line with 9001-94. The real change, if the
> document is not incorporated into 9001, will be its '99 version.
>
> Ron Berlack, hrb@aol.com
>
9001 would not be changed much to incorporate 9000-3 as it also has to
accommodate all other types of quality systems (ie. to lean toward
software Q Systems is not the objective of 9001)
I have an early draft of 9001-1999 and it is `opened out' to be more
accommodating but, by virtue of that, it looses some of the guidance
detail that is needed and should be supplied by 9000-3. Theory is that
9001-1999 will be more TQM, environment, etc. (the `system' stuff) and
less product/manufacturing specific.
Your input is correct but sadly seems to leave us with a hole until 1999.
(won't all the software we ever need be developed by then?)
jc
________________________________________________________________________
The comments/opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of the
company as a whole and should be considered to be my personal
representations only unless otherwise advised in the text.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Crowley-Quality Assurance Manager-Tyco Int. and Wormald Technology
176 South Creek Road(Private Bag 11), Dee Why, New South Wales,2099, AUST.
ph: +61 2 9981 0684 fax: +61 2 9971 1759 email: john@wormald.com.au
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of ISO 9000-3 Digest V1 #2
******************************