ISO 9000-3 Digest Saturday, 11 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 003
In this issue:
Re: Introduction
re: SPICE
Re: SPICE
subscribe
PLEASE SAVE THIS MESSAGE!
Quality Objectives
Quality Objectives
Statistical Techniques
Help (fwd)
Tickit
Are You Preapred?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John Crowley
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:07:29 +1000 (BEST)
Subject: Re: Introduction
On Thu, 2 Nov 1995 Hrb@aol.com wrote:
> SPICE is akin to the SEI/CMM at an international level. 9000-3 is Quality
> Management Systems. SPICE is Process/Performance assessment. The 9000
> series,as I understand it, is just one part of the compatability matrix for
> SPICE.
>
Actually they tend to interlace.
ISO9001 requires that suppliers be assessed for capability as well as q
System. The `capability' can be very thoroughly achieved by the SPICE or
CMM assessments. 9001 also requires various procedural controls to be in
place.
Alternately, the Spice and CMM tend to include base and generic practices
which must, by virtue of the method, draw out information about the
existance of a quality system (ie. is the process repeatable?)
The hard part here is that it is very hard to map 9001 to SPICE and CMM
in terms of any one assessment that you may carry out on a company as
both have other factors to be assessed. Yes, you can map the standards
but, when reading the results of an assessment, it can be hard (not
impossible).
These are mutually beneficial and complementary. My feelings are that
both should be applied in an assessment and that a Quality person does
the 9001 part and Engineers do the CMM/Spice bits. You will find that
Spice emphasizes the need for the Spice assessor to be very
thoroughly qualified and experienced in S/W. From my experience in doing
a Spice assessment, I totally agree with that concept.
jc
________________________________________________________________________
The comments/opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of the
company as a whole and should be considered to be my personal
representations only unless otherwise advised in the text.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Crowley-Quality Assurance Manager-Tyco Int. and Wormald Technology
176 South Creek Road(Private Bag 11), Dee Why, New South Wales,2099, AUST.
ph: +61 2 9981 0684 fax: +61 2 9971 1759 email: john@wormald.com.au
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "garry (g.k.f.) smith"
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 07:01:00 -0500
Subject: re: SPICE
FYI
Try the following web page for more info:
http://www-sqi.cit.gu.edu.au/spice/
The working drafts have been available for public comment since 8/8/95.
Here is the section from my copy on how to get hold of them:
"Requests for further copies of this draft should be sent to: Customer
Services, at the head office address below. Telephone 0181 996 7000,
fax 0181 996 7001. Price poundsCOST1 [UK sterling] to subscribing
members, who will be invoiced. Non-members should send a remittance of
poundsCOST2 [UK sterling] together with an addressed label. Orders not
accompanied by a remittance will be subject to a delay.
THIS IS A DRAFT AND MUST NOT BE REGARDED OR USED AS A BRITISH STANDARD
Head Office
389 Chiswick High Road
London W4 4AL
Telephone 0181 996 9000
Fax 0181 996 7400"
You get the following:
COST1 COST2 Document Pages
6.50 13.00 Concepts and introductory guide 22
15.50 31.00 A model for process management 108
6.50 13.00 Rating processes 11
6.50 13.00 Guide for conducting assessments 28
19.00 38.00 Construction, selection and use of
assessment instruments and tools 126
6.50 13.00 Qualification and training of assessor 34
9.00 18.00 Guide for use in process improvement 52
6.50 13.00 Guide for use in determining supplier
process capability 25
6.50 13.00 Vocabulary 17
The details of the above may be out-of-date, so please don't take
this as gospel, check first.
Hope it helps.
Garry {~`~'~} Smith
Email gks@bnr.ca {(.) (.)} ESN (6)590-4386
PSTN (010-44) (0)1628-794386 { % } Fax (010-44) (0)1628-794532
BNR Europe Ltd, Norreys Drive {'VVV`} Maidenhead, England SL6 4AG
"Any fool can count the number `^^^' of seeds in one apple, but who
can count the number of apples in one seed?" Old Japanese Saying
------------------------------
From:
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:09:25 -0500
Subject: Re: SPICE
John Crowley's comments on 9001/9000-3/SPICE are in my mind quite correct.
In dealing with "consensus" type standards written by voluntary bodies, one
will never achieve a "nervana" for desired results. However, there is
movement under foot by the ISO's Joint Technical Committee -JTC1- on Software
Engineering to interface and dialog with Technical Committee 176, Qaulity
Management Systems, developers of the 9000 series. The first move was a
meeting this month in Durban, So Africa between, Working Groups 7 and 8 of of
Subcommittee 7 to work out problems such as John described.
Success of these types of meetings will result in better standards. The SPICE
developers were pretty well devided among the functions concerned with
development and support of a software life cycle. If this is true then it
would appear that SPICE may be a primary baseline for development of quality
products??????
Ron Berlack, hrb@aol.com
------------------------------
From: bbq4254@buffa1.dcrb.dla.mil (Paul Clewell)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 95 10:33:36 EST
Subject: subscribe
------------------------------
From: "Bill Casti (Moderator)"
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 01:03:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: PLEASE SAVE THIS MESSAGE!
This is a reminder....
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- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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===========================================================================
------------------------------
From:
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 14:29:01 PST
Subject: Quality Objectives
We are a software developing house. We develop software projects, sell software
products and supply services to customers who bougth them.
We have two questions regarding Quality Objectives and measurement of these objectives:
(1) We haven't written yet the procedure/s defining the statistical techniques (clause
4.20 in 9001 and 6.4 in 9000-3). Actually we don't use any statistical technique, but
we understood from our auditors that we must define something.
Can anybody advice us what kind of measurable techniques(for the different activities)
can we apply, which will comply to the ISO requirements and will cost minimum?
(2) According to 9000-3, each software development project shall have a quality plan
which includes: (clause 5.5.2 a)"quality objectives, expressed in measurable terms
whenever possible"
Does anybody have any experience which objectives can be included and especially how
can they be measured, in an easy way?
Thank you very much,
Ruti
E_mail: ruti@spl.co.il
------------------------------
From: "Carlo Cosimini(QPR)"
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 16:21:45 CET
Subject: Quality Objectives
Hi to everybody, I'm new to this list therefore please forgive me if I
break some "netiquette" ( let me know , though ).
I've just seen the message from RUDI concerning the QUALITY Objectives
required by ISO 9000 serie.
I suggest you have a look to ISO 9126 "Software Product evaluation
- - Quality characteristics & guidelines for their use" and IEEE 1061
" Std for software Quality metrics methodology".
It is difficult to say what "quality" objectives" you should give
for your products. It is up to you to define what the best are according
to the type of application you develop and what your customers are.
Metrics are sometimes difficult to identify , why don't you start from
some basicones i.e.
- -size
- -complexity
- -test coverage
- -errors/phase
existing software tools can help you.
All the best.
Carlo.
C.Cosimini
e.mail : ccosimin@vmprofs.estec.esa.nl
tel. (+31)71 565-5864, fax (+31)71 565-4798
------------------------------
From: gdaczkow@telesciences.com (Greta H Daczkowski)
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 12:31 EST
Subject: Statistical Techniques
In response to:
(1) We haven't written yet the procedure/s defining the statistical techniques (clause
4.20 in 9001 and 6.4 in 9000-3). Actually we don't use any statistical technique, but
we understood from our auditors that we must define something.
(2) According to 9000-3, each software development project shall have a quality plan
which includes: (clause 5.5.2 a)"quality objectives, expressed in measurable terms
whenever possible"
____________________________________________________________________________
I am "in the same boat" with 4.20 Statistical Techniques. My firm is both
software and hardware (75% s/w) and I am in the Engineering Department as the
representative for the ISO committee (ISO-9001 of course!)
Statistical techniques has been defined as tools used to measure process and
product. I thought this was just a way of integrating SPC in a manufacturing
environment into the ISO requirements.
Then, I read in a book that this means Metrics:such as complexity or test
coverage or a multitude of other numerics offered out there the Software
Metrics Land. Putting a Metrics program in place, measuring it, making the
numbers useful, and improving any product by providing metrics is a huge
task (if you make it meaningful), and I hope ISO does not require this level of
effort.
We are using the ISO-9000-3 guidance and stating that we use metrics provided
in the form of customer complaints as feedback into the success of the design
and development process (these are established and carefully reported by
product line already). We are also implementing the ISO-9000-3 guidance
regarding schedules and milestones of the development process, but have
integrated this analysis into the Development Plan for each project.
An idea I had, but did not implement, was to study the number of errors detected
during the following stages: White Box Testing, System Integration Testing,
Formal Validation Testing, then Alpha or Beta Testing. Plot these along and
over time, determine what methods enable us to detect errors early on (during
verification activities), then improve our process based upon what was done
differently in that project that allowed us to detect errors early on.
The basic motto should be: Do what makes sense for your business.
Unfortunately, what makes sense to me, may not be adequate for the auditor!
,,,
(o o)
+-------------------------------oOO--( )--OOo------------------------------+
Greta H. Daczkowski |ISO 9001 is aimed at achieving
EMail: g.daczkowski@telesciences.com |customer satisfaction by preventing
|non-conformity at all stages from
Securicor TeleSciences, Inc. |design through servicing.
351 New Albany Road |
Moorestown, NJ 08057-1177 |"You should have objectives which
|go beyond ISO registration. You
Phone: (609) 866-1000 |should have QUALITY GOALS."
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
------------------------------
From: "Bill Casti (Moderator)"
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 07:38:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Help (fwd)
NOTE: If you choose to respond, please do so DIRECTLY to Mr. Li, not to me.
Thanks.
Bill
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:50:59 +0800 (SST)
From: Tay Puay Li
Subject: Help
Hi, I'm a part-time student of SIM. I'm currently doing a research
paper on Software Quality in particular with relation to ISO 9000.
I would very much appreciate if you could tell me your opinions of Software
quality and how ISO 9000 could help to ensure the quality.
I'm looking forward to hearing from u. Thanks in advance.
Please send all your mails directly to puayli@ncb.gov.sg
Thanks with regards,
Puay Li.
------------------------------
From: gdaczkow@telesciences.com (Greta H Daczkowski)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 09:50 EST
Subject: Tickit
Regarding TickIT:
I am wondering what is so restrictive or different about a TickIT audit when
compared to an ISO-9001 audit which uses ISO-9000-3 for clarifications or
implementation expectations? I've read one book, and whent through an
exercise checking Audit Questions of a TickIT auditor and could not see how
TickIT was different?
I'm looking for concrete examples as opposed to the philosophical statements
like "more restrictive", "ties your hands", etcetera. It really is not clear
to me how I would approach registration differently if I were being registered
by a TickIT focused registrar vs an ISO-9000-3 focused firm.
,,,
(o o)
+-------------------------------oOO--( )--OOo------------------------------+
Greta H. Daczkowski |ISO 9001 is aimed at achieving
EMail: g.daczkowski@telesciences.com |customer satisfaction by preventing
|non-conformity at all stages from
Securicor TeleSciences, Inc. |design through servicing.
351 New Albany Road |
Moorestown, NJ 08057-1177 |"You should have objectives which
|go beyond ISO registration. You
Phone: (609) 866-1000 |should have QUALITY GOALS."
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
------------------------------
From: Peter Quizert
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:29:08 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Are You Preapred?
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------------------------------
End of ISO 9000-3 Digest V1 #3
******************************