iso9000-3-digest Wednesday, July 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 006
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:24:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: ADV: NEW! Quality.org CyberQ Polo Shirts!
Hello:
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=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:44:22 -0400
From: Philip Stein
Subject: Quality Management in IT
Cross-posted by Philip Stein
>X-Authentication-Warning: cyberq.quality.org: majordom set sender to
>owner-baldrige@quality.org using -f
>From: Rachman Arief
>To: "baldrige@quality.org"
>Cc: "tqm-d@quality.org"
>Subject: Quality Management in IT
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:00:04 +0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Dear All :
>
>I am looking for any white papers or publications
>concerning the Quality Management in Information
>Technology.
>
>Please let me know if you have any information
>on this subject.
>
>I thank you.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Rachman Arief
>Quality Assurance,
>Information Technology, Satelindo.
>Indonesia
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:55:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: FYI (fwd)
NOTE: If you're interested, use the contact information provided below.
Bill
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 03 May 98 17:51:30 EDT
From: Carol Biesecker
Call for Papers
The First Working IFIP Conference on Software Architecture (WICSA1)
February 22-24, 1999
Crowne Plaza St. Anthony Hotel
San Antonio, Texas, USA
Sponsored by the International Federation for Information Processing (IFIP)
TC-2 and organized by the Software Engineering Institute, Carnegie Mellon
University, USA>
This conference will be held at the Crowne Plaza St. Anthony Hotel,
in San Antonio, Texas.
Hotel and conference registration information and materials will be included
in letters of acceptance.
Important dates
15 July 1998 Paper submissions due
15 September 1998 Notification of acceptance & invitation for attendance
1 November 1998 Camera-ready final papers due
22-24 February 1999 Conference
For more information, contact -
Paul Clements
Software Engineering Institute
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890
E-mail: clements@sei.cmu.edu
World Wide Web: http://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dep/prof/wicsa1/
. . . . .
Conference Description
Software architecture is a primary factor in the creation and evolution of
virtually all products involving software. It is a topic of major interest in
the research community where promising formalisms, processes, and technologies
are under development. Architecture is also of major interest in industry
because it is recognized as a significant leverage point for manipulating such
basic development factors as cost, quality, and interval. Its importance is
attested to by fact that there are several international workshop series as
well as major conference sessions devoted to it.
The First Working IFIP Conference on Software Architecture (WICSA1) will
provide a focused and dedicated forum for the international software
architecture community to unify and coordinate its effort to advance the
state of practice and research. An important goal of this working conference
is to facilitate information exchange between practicing software architects
and software architecture researchers. This conference will serve as a
kickoff event for a new IFIP TC-2 Working Group on Software Architecture and
will shape the focus and tasks of the working group for the initial period.
The conference will feature two keynotes who will present the state of
research and the state of practice in software architecture. Each keynote
will discuss where we are, where we should be, where the hard problems are, and
where the strong leverage points are.
Attendance is limited to 100 and is by invitation, on the basis of a submitted
paper. Submissions will be refereed and all accepted papers will be included
in the conference proceedings. Technical papers will be evaluated for their
originality, significance, soundness, and clarity. Experience papers will be
evaluated on the significance of the experience and the insight gained into a
problem domain or application of new methods and techniques. Position papers
will be evaluated for their reasoned presentation of a point of view pertinent
to conference themes.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:15:21 -0400
From: fll@chrysler.com
Subject: Who uses ISO9000-3 for in-house development?
I have just joined the mail list and am interested in establishing contacts
in other US private sector companies who have used the ISO9000-3 guideline
for ISO9001 certification of their in-house development organization.
Chrysler is developing its procedures and would like to talk to other
companies. In particular, we are trying to obtain some examples of plans
(development plans, quality plans, etc.
Fred Locke
Chrysler Information Services
fll@chrysler.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:31:05 -0400
From: "Hollie L. Hippen"
Subject: Re: Who uses ISO9000-3 for in-house development?
I have also joined the mail list recently and would be interested in
talking with others about developing procedures (and, if possible,
obtaining sample plans). Our company develops computational fluid
dynamics software and we are new to ISO 9000-3, so any help would be
greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Hollie Hippen
Fluent, Inc.
hlh@fluent.com
fll@chrysler.com wrote:
> I have just joined the mail list and am interested in establishing
> contacts
> in other US private sector companies who have used the ISO9000-3
> guideline
> for ISO9001 certification of their in-house development organization.
> Chrysler is developing its procedures and would like to talk to other
> companies. In particular, we are trying to obtain some examples of
> plans
> (development plans, quality plans, etc.
>
> Fred Locke
> Chrysler Information Services
> fll@chrysler.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:16:08 PDT
From: "vasanthan philip"
Subject: Re: Who uses ISO9000-3 for in-house development?
Hi,
As a first step towards ISO 9000-3 certification is an assessement
audit. To prepare for a assessement audit one should first start
documenting the current procedures, to suit the requirements of ISO
9000-3. This should take about 3-4 months of hard work. The essence is
one should have the Quality manual prepared, outlining these procedures.
The Quality manual shall be divided into several sections, such as
Overview, Project procedures, procject templates & guidlines,Standards,
support function etc. Each section will be appropriate number of
chapters. Once the quality manual is ready, u can invite and external
agency to do an assessement audit. If the assessement audit is
successful, you will be awarded ISO certification. You can look into the
following site, which will gives a lot of sample templates, that can be
used when preparing the Quality Manual : http://www.construx.com/.
I'm working for a software firm in India. We are a ISO 9001 certified
for Software development.
Regards
Vasanthan Philip
vasanthan_p@hotmail.com
>From owner-iso9000-3@quality.org Thu May 21 09:02:54 1998
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>Message-ID: <356448B9.636CD0EF@fluent.com>
>Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:31:05 -0400
>From: "Hollie L. Hippen"
>Organization: Fluent, Inc.
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>To: fll@chrysler.com
>CC: iso9000-3@quality.org
>Subject: Re: Who uses ISO9000-3 for in-house development?
>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>References: <8525660B.004C8F7B.00@lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com>
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>Precedence: bulk
>
>I have also joined the mail list recently and would be interested in
>talking with others about developing procedures (and, if possible,
>obtaining sample plans). Our company develops computational fluid
>dynamics software and we are new to ISO 9000-3, so any help would be
>greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Hollie Hippen
>Fluent, Inc.
>hlh@fluent.com
>
>
>fll@chrysler.com wrote:
>
>> I have just joined the mail list and am interested in establishing
>> contacts
>> in other US private sector companies who have used the ISO9000-3
>> guideline
>> for ISO9001 certification of their in-house development organization.
>> Chrysler is developing its procedures and would like to talk to other
>> companies. In particular, we are trying to obtain some examples of
>> plans
>> (development plans, quality plans, etc.
>>
>> Fred Locke
>> Chrysler Information Services
>> fll@chrysler.com
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:29:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: Non-member submission from ["Chris Petrov" ] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, NOT to me.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 02:21:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chris Petrov"
To: "iso9000-3"
Subject: kefeshto!
Hello,
Here is something I read a while ago...
- --------------------------------------------------------
In 2500 B.C. the civilization of Ret-Up-Moc was an advanced
culture with a number of important cities and active trade. A
construction industry existed in which professionally trained
architects and civil engineers played an important role.
Between 2500 and 2400 B.C., a major innovative technical
advance was achieved. A group of civil engineering teachers
developed a new technique for designing the load carrying
structures of buildings. By using the new method, much larger
buildings could be designed and constructed than had been
previously possible. Also, considerably less material was
required to construct buildings designed in the new way. The
lower construction costs resulted in a demand for new buildings
of all types.
The demand for new building designs increased so much that
the already qualified architects who had taken the time to learn
the new method could not satisfy their potential customers'
requirements. The number of newly trained journeymen and
masters who could act as architects' assistants was also
insufficient to alleviate the problem. The building materials
trade, unwilling to pass up an opportunity to increase sales,
found a "solution": short courses and seminars were developed
to train foremen and even construction workers to draft plans
for new buildings. They did not understand the basis of their
work, but as long as they did not deviate from the detailed
rulings, which they memorized in the courses, the results were
more or less acceptable. About a third of the new buildings collapsed
during or immediately after construction. The resulting losses
were, however, still significantly less than the savings derived
from employing the new method. So on balance, this new
approach to designing buildings was clearly better than the old way.
There were other benefits, building designers started with high
incomes, the royal leadership of Moc minimized its expense
of training the building designers, and customers were
basically happy because they could have larger and cheaper
buildings than before.
One professional architect, Akado, and some of his colleagues were
dissatisfied with the new situation in the building industry. They knew
that every collapse was avoidable and that there was a rational
scientific
basis behind building construction. In sharp contrast to the general
Mocsian construction experience, the buildings Akado designed
never collapsed. Sometimes he was asked why not and Akado
described the basis of his calculational method, but the other building
designers could not or would not understand his explanations.
Almost all customers believed that Akado's success was due solely
to chance and luck and, therefore, was not rationally explainable.
Because he charged slightly higher fees than the less qualified
designers, his better services were not in great demand.
Disappointed about this state of affairs, Akado discussed it
occasionally with his best friend, Naram, a famous actor and
amateur psychologist. Naram understood completely the
attitude of the customers, even though it was clearly irrational,
and tried to explain it to Akado. The customers were just
ordinary people, and like almost everyone in the land of the
Ret-Up-Moc, very religious, very superstitious. They could not
understand the rational scientific explanations and were suspicious
of anyone resorting to them. Consequently, they considered
such an approach to planning buildings to be impractical. In
Naram's opinion, Akado's approach obviously lacked sorcery
and superstition, which were so important in Moc. Naram
conceived a magic show for Akado which included all sorts
of superstitious incantations, magical formulae, mysterious
songs, spells and charms, witch dances, etc... Naram
directed rehearsals with Akado and shared several actors' secrets
with him. When Naram was satisfied with Akado's theatrical
performance, he turned him loose on the customers.
The premiere of Akado's magic show comprised the
major part of the dedication ceremony for his next building,
a particularly large office complex for the royal government.
Akado's performance was a huge success and potential
customers were so impressed that Akado was overwhelmed
with new architectural assignments. Several leading priests
even became mildly jealous over Akado's partial invasion
of their domain. Akado repeated this performance at the
appropriate stage of construction of every building which
he subsequently designed. With Naram's assistance Akado
continually developed his magic show to an ever more dramitic
and impressive happening.
No one in Moc really understood sorcery, of course, but everyone
believed in it, because it was a fundamental component of the
primitive Mocsian religion, culture and mentality. Akado always
recited the magic words very impressively and always, without
exception, the new building remained standing. The magic worked;
so simple was the explanation for the success of the
construction project.
Akado became very famous as a master of building sorcery. As
is always the case with a master sorcerer, candidate sorcerer's
apprentices soon found their way to him. He took on the best
of them and founded the School of Building Sorcery where he
taught the true secret of building "magic" to them. The number
of apprentices attending the school grew rapidly and in order to
organize instruction more efficiently, Akado wrote a textbook
called "Collapse Free Building Designs - Know-How and Know-Why
of Static Soundness" which recorded both the scientific and
the magic-theatrical foundations of building sorcery and transmitted
them to his pupils. Many later generations of building sorcerers
also learned the fundamental principles of their profession from this
book.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Taken from "Error-Free Software, Know-how and Know-why of
Program Correctness" by Robert Baber, published by Wiley, 1991.
His says that "proving programs correct and designing error free
software have a rational basis and is to be taken seriously,
despite the fact that some may think its magic or unrealistic".
To take another quote from his book, "what we software developers
are now doing is magnificent, but it is not engineering."
Although I do not recommend dressing scientific theory up in
the guise of magic, I still like the story and do believe that we
have to work from a solid scientific foundation for software testing
and to better our profession and the computer industry.
- -Chris Weber
PS. Say Ret-Up-Moc backwards :-)
Senior Software Engineer/System Test
Switched Network Technologies - http://www.sntc.com
business: cweber@sntc.com home: cweber@wavefront.com
web page: http://www.wavefront.com/~cweber/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 06:27:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: Non-member submission from [Alan Buck ] (fwd)
NOTE: Respond *both* to the poster's address (see BELOW line reading
"Forwarded Message") and to the list's posting address, NOT to me.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 03:11:13 -0400 (EDT)
To: iso9000-3@quality.org
From: Alan Buck
Subject: Re: kefeshto!
Hi,
>
>Although I do not recommend dressing scientific theory up in
>the guise of magic, I still like the story and do believe that we
>have to work from a solid scientific foundation for software testing
>and to better our profession and the computer industry.
It's a nice parable, but it's a pity it is related to software testing, in
the end. The moral of the tale is that the architectural and construction
techniques must be based on sound engineering principles. Akado would not
have been a success had he left his testing until the last minute, or even
for the customer to do. (Do builders issue beta versions of their products?).
Maybe the expression "Software Testing" leaves me with the impression it is
something that is done once at the end of a process rather that being
engineered into the whole development process (Verification and Validation).
Cheers,
Alan
- -------------------------------------------------------
Alan Buck
Senior Consultant, Quality and Software Engineering
PTS Software BV, Meerweg 7, 1405 BA Bussum, 035-6926969
e:mail Alan.Buck@inter.NL.net - Mobile: +31-651792343
- -------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date:
From:
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:00:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: re: Fairfax County VA
First, is anyone on this list in Fairfax County VA or local environs?
Second, do any of your Fairfaxers have a copy of this IEEE publication?
Software Engineering Standards Collection, Product # SC100
One of our local Fairfax County government employees would like to take a
look at it, to see if it meets her needs before spending $300 of your tax
dollars to requisition it. :)
My apology to the list for this not-quite-relevant inquiry, but it's worth
a try.
Thanks for your support and use of the FREE resources we have been happy
to provide you for over 4 years!
Regards.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
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=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:58:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: re: Paid Advertising
Notice:
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We will continue to support FREE links to Quality-related businesses and
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BUT, if you want to advertise your Quality-related services and products
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If you're interested in advertising online at Online Quality Resources,
contact me. If you're just interested in flaming me, save your energy and
time; flames get immediately redirected to /dev/null.
Regards.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:28:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: How to join or leave QUALITY.ORG lists
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- Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
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QUALITY RESOURCES ONLINE at: http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:54:51 PDT
From: "kanak s"
Subject: [none]
How does a small company with a small budget, which is in a state of
chaos, go for ISO9000-3? what should be the starting point?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:43:55 -0400
From: Philip Stein
Subject: Re:
>How does a small company with a small budget, which is in a state of
>chaos, go for ISO9000-3? what should be the starting point?
>
Look instead to level 2 of the CMM. The CMM materials are really clear on
how to move from level to level. Of course it doesn't make it easy...
To get from level 1 (chaos) to level 2, start with
Commitment to perform
Requirements control
Configuration control
Some of these are not budget busters.
I assume you now how to find cmm (sei.cmu.edu) and find your way around. If
not, give me a shout back
Phil
Philip Stein
Subject: Re:
> >How does a small company with a small budget, which is in a state of
> >chaos, go for ISO9000-3? what should be the starting point?
> >
>
> Look instead to level 2 of the CMM. The CMM materials are really clear on
> how to move from level to level. Of course it doesn't make it easy...
Ummm....beg to differ. The CMM is more typically oriented to
goals. Does not always explain how to do it very well. For
example, the CMM is (IMHO) short on how to sell a company
on change. Some of the proof is in the literature now coming
out that SPI works, but it might not be the CMM that is the
driver. The CMM is a tool and has good ideas, but it is no
replacement for being able to sell people on the idea of
change.
>
> To get from level 1 (chaos) to level 2, start with
>
> Commitment to perform
> Requirements control
> Configuration control
>
> Some of these are not budget busters.
>
> I assume you now how to find cmm (sei.cmu.edu) and find your way around. If
> not, give me a shout back
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> Philip Stein Consultants in the Physical Sciences, Measurements, and Quality
> National Director, American Society for Quality
> Past Chair, ASQ Measurement Quality Division
> Check out http://www.ataindy.com, http://www.metrology.org,
> http://www.hamvention.org
>
>
George X. Kambic
kambic@ct.picker.com
Voice: 440.473.2557
Fax: 440.473.7098
"Consider the sequence of assembly. Are you burying the parts that
you have to test?"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:19:59 -0400
From: Philip Stein
Subject: Re:CMM
Doesn't sound like you're differing. CMM gives good direction, some advice
on how to implement (see tr25 - it's got all the 2d level procedures all
written out), almost no advice on how to achieve the cultural change or get
buy-in. There's lots of peripheral literature from talks given by Paulk and
all, and some wonderful materials such as the video on how to do peer
reviews, so they're not insensitive to the need, but it's not central to
their work. They share the attitude that many quality pros have failed by,
namely this stuff is so obviously wonderful and clearly a major improvement
- - everyone should understand that on first look.
>> >How does a small company with a small budget, which is in a state of
>> >chaos, go for ISO9000-3? what should be the starting point?
>> >
>>
>> Look instead to level 2 of the CMM. The CMM materials are really clear on
>> how to move from level to level. Of course it doesn't make it easy...
>
>Ummm....beg to differ. The CMM is more typically oriented to
>goals. Does not always explain how to do it very well. For
>example, the CMM is (IMHO) short on how to sell a company
>on change. Some of the proof is in the literature now coming
>out that SPI works, but it might not be the CMM that is the
>driver. The CMM is a tool and has good ideas, but it is no
>replacement for being able to sell people on the idea of
>change.
>
>
>>
>> To get from level 1 (chaos) to level 2, start with
>>
>> Commitment to perform
>> Requirements control
>> Configuration control
>>
>> Some of these are not budget busters.
>>
>> I assume you now how to find cmm (sei.cmu.edu) and find your way around. If
>> not, give me a shout back
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> Philip Stein > Consultants in the Physical Sciences, Measurements, and Quality
>> National Director, American Society for Quality
>> Past Chair, ASQ Measurement Quality Division
>> Check out http://www.ataindy.com, http://www.metrology.org,
>> http://www.hamvention.org
>>
>>
>
>
>George X. Kambic
>kambic@ct.picker.com
>Voice: 440.473.2557
>Fax: 440.473.7098
>"Consider the sequence of assembly. Are you burying the parts that
>you have to test?"
Philip Stein
Subject: Re:CMM
> Doesn't sound like you're differing. CMM gives good direction, some advice
> on how to implement (see tr25 - it's got all the 2d level procedures all
> written out), almost no advice on how to achieve the cultural change or get
> buy-in. There's lots of peripheral literature from talks given by Paulk and
> all, and some wonderful materials such as the video on how to do peer
> reviews, so they're not insensitive to the need, but it's not central to
> their work. They share the attitude that many quality pros have failed by,
> namely this stuff is so obviously wonderful and clearly a major improvement
> - everyone should understand that on first look.
I wrote a paper a number of years ago, called "The Selling of
Process Improvement." Could not get it accepted at any
conferences. A lot of professionals do see the need easily,
but getting a bunch of project managers with their feet to the
fire to make the investment on the long term payoff against the
short term impact is always fun.
George
George X. Kambic
kambic@ct.picker.com
Voice: 440.473.2557
Fax: 440.473.7098
"Consider the sequence of assembly. Are you burying the parts that
you have to test?"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:44:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kay Hartman
Subject: Re:CMM
Philip Stein writes:
> Doesn't sound like you're differing. CMM gives good direction, some advice
> on how to implement (see tr25 - it's got all the 2d level procedures all
> written out), almost no advice on how to achieve the cultural change or get
> buy-in. There's lots of peripheral literature from talks given by Paulk and
> all, and some wonderful materials such as the video on how to do peer
> reviews, so they're not insensitive to the need, but it's not central to
> their work. They share the attitude that many quality pros have failed by,
> namely this stuff is so obviously wonderful and clearly a major improvement
> - everyone should understand that on first look.
There's a difference between defining the key practice areas that are
necessary for developing quality software and a perscription for how
to implement those key practice areas. Take configuration management
as an example. There are many ways to implement configuration
management. Different ways work differently in different companies.
It is not for an organization like the CMM to tell you how to do
configuration management. The way that works at the SEI may not be
the way that works at your company. Personally, I'm comfortable with
a list of key practice areas as a guideline. If I don't know about
configuration management (or project management or anything else), I
know I need to learn more about it so I can figure out what makes
sense where I work.
The same is true for buy-in. What works for one manager may not be
the same thing that works for another. What works for one developer
may not be the same thing that works for another.
I think the CMM (or ISO or Baldridge etc.) would not have any success
if they tried to dictate these issues down to this level. They don't
work where you work so they don't know what will work where you work.
As to the original question...
>> >How does a small company with a small budget, which is in a state of
>> >chaos, go for ISO9000-3? what should be the starting point?
There are a couple of schools of thought. One school is that you
start with reviews. Anything you are already producing, review it.
As people understand what it takes to pass a review, they will improve
their work so as not to suffer through the review process and fail.
Another school of thought is to start with what is politically
expedient. Plant seeds. Give management a broad overview of what
changes are needed. Start with whichever ones generate the most
enthusiasm or with the ones where the responsible manager is willing
to support and participate in the change.
The school you follow will depend on how your organization works.
Pick one thing at a time to change. With a small budget you can't
afford to do more. Any positive improvement you make will be a step
in the right direction.
Kay
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:23:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Deibler
Subject: Re:CMM
Phil,
The CMM was designed primarily for acquisition purposes, not for process
improvement. It's target audience was not small software firms, but DoD
providers....but that's a long story....
Much tailoring and effort is required to implement the CMM in the small,
and it's a LOT OF WORK (just ask anyone who has done it....).
We've worked with a number of firms on implementing the CMM, and in the
Silicon Valley, with the exception of a few semiconductor houses, and the
typical defense segment, it's fairly unknown to most software firms here.
There is a lot to sift through in the CMM, which is why so many companies
are fearful of it. But there are certainly plenty of good "Whats?" in the
CMM.
As George and I have discussed over the years....it's not whether you
choose CMM or ISO or Deming or Crosby or TQM turbo(sm)...tee hee....it is
a matter of whether you (the organization) want to change!
People will work around the deficiencies of a model, and will go beyond
the model when and where it makes sense. It's amazing how people don't
get hung up on the unimportant details when they are motivated to
change.... They understand that change is ok....that it can be
worthwhile.
The problem with the models for the end-users is that they aren't an
implementation cookbook, which frustrates those who must implement
practices that are called out in the models. That same problem for some,
is the beauty of the models for others, in that they are "whats" not
"hows", and therefore, they are tailorable.
I wish I could remember the author of this quote:
"All models are wrong, some are useful"
George, did i get it right?
I'm so glad this topic came up as I've been working on a paper on the
subject.....
best,
bill
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Deibler SSQC
http://www.ssqc.com 2269 Sunny Vista Drive
Phone (408) 985-4476 Fax 248-SSQC San Jose, CA 95128
On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Philip Stein wrote:
> Doesn't sound like you're differing. CMM gives good direction, some advice
> on how to implement (see tr25 - it's got all the 2d level procedures all
> written out), almost no advice on how to achieve the cultural change or get
> buy-in. There's lots of peripheral literature from talks given by Paulk and
> all, and some wonderful materials such as the video on how to do peer
> reviews, so they're not insensitive to the need, but it's not central to
> their work. They share the attitude that many quality pros have failed by,
> namely this stuff is so obviously wonderful and clearly a major improvement
> - everyone should understand that on first look.
>
>
> >> >How does a small company with a small budget, which is in a state of
> >> >chaos, go for ISO9000-3? what should be the starting point?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Look instead to level 2 of the CMM. The CMM materials are really clear on
> >> how to move from level to level. Of course it doesn't make it easy...
> >
> >Ummm....beg to differ. The CMM is more typically oriented to
> >goals. Does not always explain how to do it very well. For
> >example, the CMM is (IMHO) short on how to sell a company
> >on change. Some of the proof is in the literature now coming
> >out that SPI works, but it might not be the CMM that is the
> >driver. The CMM is a tool and has good ideas, but it is no
> >replacement for being able to sell people on the idea of
> >change.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> To get from level 1 (chaos) to level 2, start with
> >>
> >> Commitment to perform
> >> Requirements control
> >> Configuration control
> >>
> >> Some of these are not budget busters.
> >>
> >> I assume you now how to find cmm (sei.cmu.edu) and find your way around. If
> >> not, give me a shout back
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Philip Stein >> Consultants in the Physical Sciences, Measurements, and Quality
> >> National Director, American Society for Quality
> >> Past Chair, ASQ Measurement Quality Division
> >> Check out http://www.ataindy.com, http://www.metrology.org,
> >> http://www.hamvention.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >George X. Kambic
> >kambic@ct.picker.com
> >Voice: 440.473.2557
> >Fax: 440.473.7098
> >"Consider the sequence of assembly. Are you burying the parts that
> >you have to test?"
>
>
> Philip Stein Consultants in the Physical Sciences, Measurements, and Quality
> National Director, American Society for Quality
> Past Chair, ASQ Measurement Quality Division
> Check out http://www.ataindy.com, http://www.metrology.org,
> http://www.hamvention.org
>
>
>
------------------------------
End of iso9000-3-digest V2 #6
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