iso9000-3-digest Friday, September 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 007
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:03:21 -0500
From: Suzanne
Subject: Re:
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> Found excellent urls with timely info for some new software standards
> currently under development that complement the CMM program called SPICE.
> To learn more about it, here's some links...
>
> http://www.sei.cmu.edu/spice/resources/briefings.html
>
http://iese.iese.fhg.de/SPICE/Resources/index_frames.html
Agree CMM is a good starting point for focusing on best practices.
Process improvement is another consideration and SPICE
compliments CMM here.
I hear they just completed the first initial pilot and second
one to begin soon. As with any guideline, it would need to be adjusted
for company size but much is applicable to any business entity.
> kanak s wrote:
>
>> How does a small company with a small budget, which is in a state of
>>
>> chaos, go for ISO9000-3? what should be the starting point?
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
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Found excellent urls with timely info for some new software standards
currently under development that complement the CMM program called SPICE.
To learn more about it, here's some links...
http://www.sei.cmu.edu/spice/resources/briefings.html
http://iese.iese.fhg.de/SPICE/Resources/index_frames.html
Agree CMM is a good starting point for focusing on best practices.
Process improvement is another consideration and SPICE
compliments CMM here.
I hear they just completed the first initial pilot and
second
one to begin soon. As with any guideline, it would need to be adjusted
for company size but much is applicable to any business entity.
kanak s wrote:
How does a small company with a small budget, which
is in a state of
chaos, go for ISO9000-3? what should be the starting point?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:34:19 -0500
From: "George X. Kambic"
Subject: Re:CMM
> Philip Stein writes:
> > Doesn't sound like you're differing. CMM gives good direction, some advice
> > on how to implement (see tr25 - it's got all the 2d level procedures all
> > written out), almost no advice on how to achieve the cultural change or get
> > buy-in. There's lots of peripheral literature from talks given by Paulk and
> > all, and some wonderful materials such as the video on how to do peer
> > reviews, so they're not insensitive to the need, but it's not central to
> > their work. They share the attitude that many quality pros have failed by,
> > namely this stuff is so obviously wonderful and clearly a major improvement
> > - everyone should understand that on first look.
>
> There's a difference between defining the key practice areas that are
> necessary for developing quality software and a perscription for how
> to implement those key practice areas.
Yep, but at some point, someone has to perscribe. What I
want to make sure is that people do not regard the CMM as a
panacea. There is a lot of hard work involved, and it requires
involvement and dedication by a lot of people.
[...]
> The same is true for buy-in. What works for one manager may not be
> the same thing that works for another. What works for one developer
> may not be the same thing that works for another.
This requires salesmanship, which is the absolute
nonaddressed starting point. Everyone says "Get
management support." I only ask "How?" (I have my own
answers, just want to point out where we are going.)
> I think the CMM (or ISO or Baldridge etc.) would not have any success
> if they tried to dictate these issues down to this level. They don't
> work where you work so they don't know what will work where you work.
>
> As to the original question...
>
> There are a couple of schools of thought. One school is that you
> start with reviews. Anything you are already producing, review it.
> As people understand what it takes to pass a review, they will improve
> their work so as not to suffer through the review process and fail.
But unless there is process and supporting mechanisms for
reviews, they will fail.
> Another school of thought is to start with what is politically
> expedient. Plant seeds. Give management a broad overview of what
> changes are needed. Start with whichever ones generate the most
> enthusiasm or with the ones where the responsible manager is willing
> to support and participate in the change.
I think that you have to first identify management needs, and
then determine whether or not you can map the SPI actions
into satisfying their needs.
> The school you follow will depend on how your organization works.
> Pick one thing at a time to change. With a small budget you can't
> afford to do more. Any positive improvement you make will be a step
> in the right direction.
Only if it is sustained.
George X. Kambic
kambic@ct.picker.com
Voice: 440.473.2557
Fax: 440.473.7098
"Consider the sequence of assembly. Are you burying the parts that
you have to test?"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:29:02 +0300
From: Avi Harel
Subject: Looking for criteria for usability qualit
Hi there,
I am looking for criteria for evaluating
GUI applications in terms of usability,
such as:
- - The minimal ratio of net operation,
as an indication of user's productivity
- - Forgiveness to user's errors,
as required for mission critical and
safety critical systems.
I know how to measure usability but I do
not know of any criteria for evaluating them.
Can anybody refer me to any such criteria?
Avi Harel,
==================================
ErgoLight Usability Software Ltd.,
6 Giv'on St., Haifa 34335, Israel
HTTP://www.ergolight.co.il
Email: avi@ergolight.co.il
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:48:47 +0300
From: Avi Harel
Subject: Re: Looking for criteria for usability qualit
Sandrine Balbo wrote:
> Criteria for usability: see Nielsen, or even better: Scapin and Bastien.
> These guys developed criteria for evaluating user interfaces.
>
> Good luck
> Sandrine
>
> PS: I'm very surprised that you can measure without having criteria. Then
> why do you perform measurements and how do you validate these measurements????
Sandrine,
What we measure is the User's Operation Profile, including how much time
users spend looking for a particular Windows control, how much time they
spend trying to understand the system response, how much time the waste
trying to recover from activating error prone controls or from working
in the wrong mode etc.
You do not need criteria for measuring the costs of error prone design.
However, you need a criteria for deciding when the costs are too high
so that a design change is needed.
Avi Harel,
==================================
ErgoLight Usability Software Ltd.,
6 Giv'on St., Haifa 34335, Israel
HTTP://www.ergolight.co.il
Email: avi@ergolight.co.il
Phone: +972-4-826-3012
Fax: +972-4-825-8199
==================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:52:42 +0300
From: Avi Harel
Subject: Re: Looking for criteria for usability qualit
Mike,
I am not concerned about software metrics.
Rather, I am concerned about USABILITY, namely,
measuring parameters that describe the problems
tha end users have in operating the AUT.
I developed tools for doing these measurements,
and I am looking for criteria to decide what measurements
should indicate that a design change is indeed required.
Avi Harel
Mike Zeevi wrote:
> Avi hi,
> There are a number of books describing software metrics (Grady, Moller,
> Weinberg, etc.). None are great because they are too general and do not
> relate to real info that you need, especially GUI metrics. Try the books
> as they exist and there is nothing else.
==================================
ErgoLight Usability Software Ltd.,
HTTP://www.ergolight.co.il
Email: avi@ergolight.co.il
Phone: +972-4-826-3012
Fax: +972-4-825-8199
==================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:44:11 +1000
From: Michael Berry
Subject: Re:CMM
Having watched the discussion about CMM and the difficulty of taking the
prescribed medicine, I would like to offer my pet hypothesis that the
publication of CMM, SPICE, ISO 9000-3, ISO 12207, BOOTSTRAP, TickIt et al
are directly associated with the flight to outsourcing.
Any IT manager or CIO, who reads these prescriptive models and sees what
they should be doing if they are to do the job properly, would be alarmed
at the degree of organisational change required. This alarm would be more
acute where the acquisition, supply, development, maintenance and operation
of software are not regarded as central to the core business. Furthermore,
the shortage of strong empirical evidence that adoption of these
prescriptive models actually improve business outcomes would make it hard
to justify the cost and pain of the required changes.
Much easier, then, to abdicate and hand responsibility to the outsourcer
for whom software is (supposed to be) core business.
I'm not sure this is a testable hypothesis: it would be a brave IT manager
or CIO who would admit it was all too hard. Instead we get economic
rationales for outsourcing that fit the current dominant business paradigm
and are therefore largely unquestioned and untested.
Mike Berry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:08:10 -0500
From: Suzanne
Subject: Multiple software process quests for excellence
Please reference CMM, SPICE, ISO, Bootstrap, Tickit, etc., and all these
disciplines
or quests for best practices in technology development. Outsourcing, on
the surface, is an easy course
to adopt but recommend an easier and more cost effective approach is to
train resources
in house. In the long run, a system integration project aimed at
training staff in house on these techniques led by good commensurate
team leadership capabilities will be by far the best choice
to minimize overall cash outlay and most likely lead to a competitive
edge in the long run.
Another way to say is...
The investment in training in those with ability to lead will more than
pay for itself in the long run.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:56:16 -0500
From: "George X. Kambic"
Subject: Re:CMM
> Having watched the discussion about CMM and the difficulty of taking the
> prescribed medicine, I would like to offer my pet hypothesis that the
> publication of CMM, SPICE, ISO 9000-3, ISO 12207, BOOTSTRAP, TickIt et al
> are directly associated with the flight to outsourcing.
Would have to disagree. I think that the internal value has
been demonstrated.
>
> Any IT manager or CIO, who reads these prescriptive models and sees what
> they should be doing if they are to do the job properly, would be alarmed
> at the degree of organisational change required.
It is a lot of change, but there is a lot of value received. You
can't get something for nothing. Mostly it would seem to be
fear of their own jobs because they have not been doing them
right.
> This alarm would be more
> acute where the acquisition, supply, development, maintenance and operation
> of software are not regarded as central to the core business. Furthermore,
> the shortage of strong empirical evidence that adoption of these
> prescriptive models actually improve business outcomes would make it hard
> to justify the cost and pain of the required changes.
What evidence have you looked that you claim is not
supporting this, or why is it not strong? What is strong?
> Much easier, then, to abdicate and hand responsibility to the outsourcer
> for whom software is (supposed to be) core business.
Oh, really? And what process do they follow that guarantees
your success?
> I'm not sure this is a testable hypothesis: it would be a brave IT manager
> or CIO who would admit it was all too hard. Instead we get economic
> rationales for outsourcing that fit the current dominant business paradigm
> and are therefore largely unquestioned and untested.
? I thought you were saying that they are already saying that
it is too hard? I are confused at what you are saying now.
George X. Kambic
kambic@ct.picker.com
Voice: 440.473.2557
Fax: 440.473.7098
"Consider the sequence of assembly. Are you burying the parts that
you have to test?"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:26:32 +1000
From: Michael Berry
Subject: Re:CMM
Thanks, George, for challenging my hypothesis and starting a debate. I made
my responses to each of your comments.
At 16:56 22/07/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Having watched the discussion about CMM and the difficulty of taking the
>> prescribed medicine, I would like to offer my pet hypothesis that the
>> publication of CMM, SPICE, ISO 9000-3, ISO 12207, BOOTSTRAP, TickIt et al
>> are directly associated with the flight to outsourcing.
>
>Would have to disagree. I think that the internal value has
>been demonstrated.
The increase in outsourcing may be only coincidentally associated with the
increase in publication of normative models. Only research, in particular
longitudinal studies, would be able to examine the nature of the association.
>>
>> Any IT manager or CIO, who reads these prescriptive models and sees what
>> they should be doing if they are to do the job properly, would be alarmed
>> at the degree of organisational change required.
>
>It is a lot of change, but there is a lot of value received. You
>can't get something for nothing. Mostly it would seem to be
>fear of their own jobs because they have not been doing them
>right.
I think we agree on this one. IT managers must invest to get worthwhile
change. However, I suggest that this involves A) an admission that they
have not been doing things right and B) two leaps of faith: 1- the
management that got the IT dept. into the current state can get it out of
it, and 2- the normative model that worked in company x will also work in
their own company. Organisational politics being what they are, this is a
big ask of the IT manager.
>
>> This alarm would be more
>> acute where the acquisition, supply, development, maintenance and operation
>> of software are not regarded as central to the core business. Furthermore,
>> the shortage of strong empirical evidence that adoption of these
>> prescriptive models actually improve business outcomes would make it hard
>> to justify the cost and pain of the required changes.
>
>What evidence have you looked that you claim is not
>supporting this, or why is it not strong? What is strong?
>
"What is strong?" - good question. In social science there is rarely strong
evidence as there are usually too many confounding and interacting
variables in the real world. Most of the success reports are case study
oriented which means it is impossible to assert cause and effect with any
degree of confidence. The failures tend to be under-reported in journals
and conferences. There is also limited capture of contextual factors in the
reports which inhibits the ability to generalise beyond the immmediate
organisation that is the subject of the case study.
In this situation, committing one's organisation to a change program is
indeed a "leap of faith" with the possible outcome of suicide by "silver
bullet".
>> Much easier, then, to abdicate and hand responsibility to the outsourcer
>> for whom software is (supposed to be) core business.
>
>Oh, really? And what process do they follow that guarantees
>your success?
I think we may share a scepticism about outsourcers. However, my point was
that it is an easier decision for an IT manager to hand over responsibility
to an outsourcer and save money (at least in the short term) than it is to
embark on an organisational change program and spend money in the short
term. Organisation change is a long term commitment and short term thinking
seems to be dominant in western management.
Regarding the process that the outsourcers follow - it is irrelevant to the
IT manager, only the cost and the outcome count. These are controlled
contractually which is why it appeals. I have heard comments that you need
to be a pretty mature organisation (eg CMM 2/3) to properly evaluate your
outsourcer and manage the relationship properly. What hope would an
immature organisation have?
I feel we may have gone back to the old world in which "nobody ever got
fired for buying IBM". I don't necessarily think that there was anything
wrong in that - IBM did a fantastic job of stimulating IT and supporting
novice IT departments in 70's and early 80's. However, I do find it
interesting that the IT community seems to be going through a period of
self-doubt and putting its faith in the outsourcers.
>
>> I'm not sure this is a testable hypothesis: it would be a brave IT manager
>> or CIO who would admit it was all too hard. Instead we get economic
>> rationales for outsourcing that fit the current dominant business paradigm
>> and are therefore largely unquestioned and untested.
>
>? I thought you were saying that they are already saying that
>it is too hard? I are confused at what you are saying now.
What I am saying is that while they may feel it is all too hard, they will
say it is too difficult to quantify the benefits and that the ROI is not
there. They will then take the outsourcing option and be praised for making
the hard decisions and saving the company money.
>
>
>George X. Kambic
>kambic@ct.picker.com
>Voice: 440.473.2557
>Fax: 440.473.7098
>"Consider the sequence of assembly. Are you burying the parts that
>you have to test?"
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:12:26 -0700
From: "Wheet, Ted"
Subject: 9000-3 vs CMM
I would like some latest thinking on the differences and benefits of 9000-3
Vs CMM ... PROs and CONs of each would be nice. thanks
Ted Wheet
Senior QA Engineer
Quality Management
Los Angeles County
Metropolitan Transportation Authority
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:41:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: FYI: SEI Software Engineering Symposium (fwd)
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 09:07:20 EDT
From: Carol Biesecker
Subject: SEI Software Engineering Symposium
The SEI Software Engineering Symposium
September 14-17, 1998
David L. Lawrence Convention Center
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Theme: Improving What You Build Means Improving How You Build
Deadline for early bird registration discount: August 12, 1998.
For complete details, visit our Web site at:
http://www.sei.cmu.edu/products/events/symp/
The Software Engineering Institute (SEI) Software Engineering Symposium
provides a forum for discussing currently applicable practices that software
practitioners can use to improve what they build by improving how they build.
Tutorials and presentations throughout the Symposium will describe activities
within the SEI program of work. Results of these activities enable practioners
to develop and follow a mature process to manage software-intensive systems as
product lines derived from stable, flexible software architectures based on
commercial standards.
. . . . .
Birds-of-a-Feather Sessions
Birds-of-a-feather (BoF) sessions will be held on three evenings of the
conference: Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. BoF session format may range from
an open forum with no agenda to prepared questions and position statements.
During the conference, attendees can propose a BoF by posting a BoF sign-up
sheet. All proposed BoF session sign-up sheets will be posted for attendees to
register their interest. Attendees proposing BoF topics are requested to
perform the role of BoF session leader.
. . . . .
Exhibits
Approximately 50 companies, government organizations, and the SEI will have
exhibits and information about projects and products that support software
engineering. Questions about exhibits should be directed to the exhibits
coordinator: telephone 412 / 268-7388.
Exhibit Hours: Monday 9:30 a.m - 7:30 p.m. Tuesday 9:30 a.m - 4:00 p.m.
Wednesday 9:30 a.m - 4:00 p.m.
For more information about exhibit fees, contact the exhibit coordinator,
telephone 412 / 268-7388 and select option 3.
. . . . .
General Attendee Registration Fees.
KEY - R = Regular WT = Wire Transfer/ACH
Early Bird Discount On-Site
(by Aug. 12) (by Sept. 2) (after Sept. 2)
R WT R WT R WT
Conference & tutorials $745 $770 $845 $870 $945 $970
Conference only $595 $620 $695 $720 $795 $820
Tutorials only $395 $420 $495 $520 $595 $620
One-day admission $295 $320 $395 $420 $495 $520
Please specify which day(s) you will attend: __ Mon __ Tues __ Weds __ Th
Exhibits only __ FREE __N/A __ FREE __N/A __ $50 ___N/A
. . . . .
For More Information
about the Software Engineering Institute or for more details about the
Software Engineering Symposium and other events, please contact
SEI Customer Relations
Phone: 412 / 268-5800
E-mail: customer-relations@sei.cmu.edu
. . .
The Software Engineering Institute (SEI) is a federally funded research and
development center sponsored by the U.S. Department of Defense and operated by
Carnegie Mellon University.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:15:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ricardo Mejiaz
Subject: Introducing myself
Hi.
I am a new member of this list.
I am very intersted on participate.
Firstable, i want to know which version of the ISO 9000-3 standard are
we working on. The 1994 version or a later version.
In addition i want to know which kind of documents are you working, an
if you can send me one copy of them i will begin to give my comments.
later i will going to send some comments i have about this standard.
Thanks for your time.
RMZ
Systems Engineer
Software Quality Assurance Enginner
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:25:51 +0300
From: "Chris Petrov"
Subject: Anyone out there?
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
Is this listserver still working?
Regards,
Chris
- ------=_NextPart_000_0165_01BDE6E4.EBAE1BB0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
Is this listserver still working?
Regards,
Chris
- ------=_NextPart_000_0165_01BDE6E4.EBAE1BB0--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:47:43 +0300
From: "Chris Petrov"
Subject: Tank you
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BB_01BDE6F0.5B6A13E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
The reason for my posting was that I have not received a single message =
for about a month.
I don' have a particular question, only checking links in Danny Faught's =
comp.software.testing FAQ
Thank you!
Regards,
Chris
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BB_01BDE6F0.5B6A13E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
The reason for my posting was that I =
have not=20
received a single message for about a month.
I don' have a particular question, =
only checking=20
links in Danny Faught's comp.software.testing FAQ
Thank you!
Regards,
Chris
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BB_01BDE6F0.5B6A13E0--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:50:42 +0300
From: Tamar Yaron
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
> Chris Petrov wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Is this listserver still working?
Well, your message came through, but nobody seems to be
writing anything.
- --
Shalom,
Tamar.
My ICQ communication page: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5651107
Maybe in order to understand mankind we have to look at that
word itself.
MANKIND. Basically, it's made up of two separate words
"mank" and "ind."
What do these words mean?
It's a mystery and that's why so is mankind.
"Deep Thoughts" (by Jack Handey)
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world
without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd
never expect it.
"Deep Thoughts" (by Jack Handey)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:01:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Deibler
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
Since there is little traffic on the listerver, I'll do a plug. If anyone
is interested in reading about a software process assessment method that
profiles companies to both ISO 9001 and the CMM, then I would like to
suggest an article in this month's CrossTALK magazine, which is available
online (free of course).
The CrossTalk Magazine URL is:
http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/1998/sep/sep98ind.html
for the main page listing the articles for September.
The PDF URL for the article is:
http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/1998/sep/bamford.pdf
The HTML URL for the article is:
http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/1998/sep/bamford.html
I hope you find the article useful.
Sincerely,
bill
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Deibler SSQC
http://www.ssqc.com 2269 Sunny Vista Drive
Phone (408) 985-4476 Fax 248-SSQC San Jose, CA 95128
On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Tamar Yaron wrote:
> > Chris Petrov wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is this listserver still working?
>
> Well, your message came through, but nobody seems to be
> writing anything.
>
> --
> Shalom,
> Tamar.
>
> My ICQ communication page: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5651107
>
> Maybe in order to understand mankind we have to look at that
> word itself.
> MANKIND. Basically, it's made up of two separate words
> "mank" and "ind."
> What do these words mean?
> It's a mystery and that's why so is mankind.
> "Deep Thoughts" (by Jack Handey)
>
> I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world
> without hate.
> And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd
> never expect it.
> "Deep Thoughts" (by Jack Handey)
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:18:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
Yes, there are lots of people "out here". But, if you don't have something
to contribute to discussions of ISO9000-3, please don't post stupid
messages with no BODY. Probably everyone else is doing the same thing YOU
are, sitting back waiting for someone else to post.
Bill
On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Bill Deibler wrote:
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:20:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
Yes. Post your own messages to the list and ASK QUESTIONS. Most people
WANT to share their knowledge, but won't know what you don't know unless
you tell them.
The list's posting address remains: iso9000-3@quality.org
Use it early and often!
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Loren wrote:
> Ouch...
>
> Bill,
> Maybe you can help Bill , myself and others like us. When I signed up for this
> list, I was hoping to learn a little more about the whole process of
> ISO9000-3, with the help of my peers. Not counting what was recently posted,
> not much info seems to make it here. Any ideas on how to change this ?
>
> Thanks for you time
>
> Loren Angeletta
>
> "Bill Casti (System Admin)" wrote:
>
> > Yes, there are lots of people "out here". But, if you don't have something
> > to contribute to discussions of ISO9000-3, please don't post stupid
> > messages with no BODY. Probably everyone else is doing the same thing YOU
> > are, sitting back waiting for someone else to post.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Bill Deibler wrote:
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:12:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: testing 1
this is test 1.
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 24 Sep 1998 09:57:29 +0200
From: THIERRY.BERGIER@email.afnor.fr
Subject: ISO 9001/9004 Revision
It seems there is some free space here to tell something about ISO 9000-3.
I am sure you all know the ISO 9001/9004 standards are currently under revision.
What you may not be aware of is that the international software engineering
standarization community (ISO/IEC JTC1/SC7) is currently working on making
sure software issues are adressed in this revision.
(As they did in ISO 9000-3.)
"Anyone out there" may be interested in participating in this international effort.
In order to do this, simply contact your nearest ISO National Body.
(List in "Member bodies" of
http://saturne.info.uqam.ca/Labo_Recherche/Lrgl/sc7/index.html)
For France, you can contact me.
Thank you.
Regards,
Thierry
- -----------------------------------------------------
Thierry Bergier - AFNOR
Software Engineering and Quality Standardization
Tel. : (+33) 1 42 91 58 42, fax : (+33) 1 42 91 56 56
mailto:thierry.bergier@email.afnor.fr
http://www.afnor.fr
Tour Europe - 92049 Paris La Defense Cedex - France
- -----------------------------------------------------
- -----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-iso9000-3@quality.org [SMTP:owner-iso9000-3@quality.org]
Date: mercredi 23 septembre 1998 17:15
À: petrovchris@usa.net
Cc: iso9000-3@quality.org
Objet: Re: Anyone out there?
> Chris Petrov wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Is this listserver still working?
Well, your message came through, but nobody seems to be
writing anything.
- --
Shalom,
Tamar.
My ICQ communication page: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/5651107
Maybe in order to understand mankind we have to look at that
word itself.
MANKIND. Basically, it's made up of two separate words
"mank" and "ind."
What do these words mean?
It's a mystery and that's why so is mankind.
"Deep Thoughts" (by Jack Handey)
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world
without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd
never expect it.
"Deep Thoughts" (by Jack Handey)
__
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:01:22 +0100
From: Miguel Cunha Lopes
Subject: software quality assurance
Hello,
I'm looking for information about how to start and implement a quality
system for software development.
I'll appreciate any help,
Miguel Cunha Lopes
mlopes@sibs.mailcom.pt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:29:46 +0100
From: Brian Glover
Subject: Getting ISO9000-3 and TickIT accreditation
Hello,
I have been asked to get our company ISO approved
I now have a copy of ISO 9000-3 and Tickit guide iss4
Our procedures are not written down yet
Would you folk out there please help me formulate the high level project
plan.
To guide my thoughts and efforts
Eg list of action headings with target time scales
Or even better a copy of the plan you did in the early days
Nice to see the group alive again
Regards
BrianGlover
Technical Support
Tel: +44 (0) 1203 856404
Fax: +44 (0) 1203 856401
Email briang@russelladams.com
Website http://www.russelladams.com
I would rather be sailing .._/).._/)..**3083
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:56:15 +0400
From: Ruth Noronha
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Casti (System Admin)
To: Bill Deibler
Cc: Tamar Yaron ; Chris Petrov
; iso9000-3
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: Anyone out there?
>
>Yes, there are lots of people "out here". But, if you don't have something
>to contribute to discussions of ISO9000-3, please don't post stupid
>messages with no BODY. Probably everyone else is doing the same thing YOU
I did not get the "blank" message. The message I got had information I found
very useful. Thanks Bill !
Regards
>are, sitting back waiting for someone else to post.
>
>Bill
>
>On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Bill Deibler wrote:
>
>
________________________________________
John J Noronha
ADNOC FOD
IT Division
PO Box 4188
Abu Dhabi, UAE
Ph: +971 2 7031483
Fax: +971 2 742265
________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 01:07:05 +0700
From: smarn srisukh <2king@loxinfo.co.th>
Subject: (no subject)
Dear chris,
1. Where can I get the good check list for 9000-3 (1997) ?
2. I am implementing the QMS for Hard ware/soft ware com. by using both
ISO9001 and 9000-3 (1997) . Mainly,
ISO9001 is straight forward for Hard ware part and 9001 with 9000-3 for
soft ware part. The scoping is done in Quality
manual , I founded that with ISO9000-3 (1997) It was very easy. Is
there any one with similar experience implementing
Hard ware/soft ware/ service project ?
Smarn
2king@loxinfo.co.th
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:37:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: Message from Ricardo Mejiaz (fwd)
NOTE: If you want the PDF file, please contact Mr. Mejiaz directly at his
email address (below) and request him to send it to you. Do NOT reply to
the list address or to me.
Bill
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:50:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ricardo Mejiaz
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: 2king@loxinfo.co.th
Hi.
Actually i am implementing QMS for our software develoment company.
I am sending you an attach [DELETED FOR EXCEEDING MAX. ATTACHMENT SIZE
LIMITS] with a PDF file containing the ISO Gap Check
List for ISO 9000-3.
I hope this be useful to you.
If you can send me a copy of your Quality Manual or any other information
I can use in our process, i will appreciate it.
Any other subject i can help you. feel free to ask.
Regards,
Ricardo Mejia
Software Quality Assurance Engineer
- ---smarn srisukh <2king@loxinfo.co.th> wrote:
>
> Dear chris,
> 1. Where can I get the good check list for 9000-3 (1997) ?
> 2. I am implementing the QMS for Hard ware/soft ware com. by using both
> ISO9001 and 9000-3 (1997) . Mainly,
> ISO9001 is straight forward for Hard ware part and 9001 with 9000-3 for
> soft ware part. The scoping is done in Quality
> manual , I founded that with ISO9000-3 (1997) It was very easy. Is
> there any one with similar experience implementing
> Hard ware/soft ware/ service project ?
> Smarn
> 2king@loxinfo.co.th
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:55:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
Subject: Message from Ricardo Mejiaz (fwd)
NOTE: In order to eliminate some of the time and trouble to obtain this
document, I have installed it for download, still as a PDF file, from
QUALITY.ORG. You can get it at
http://www.quality.org/html/iso90003.html
Regards.
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org
Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149
President, Associated Quality Consultants, Inc. Fax: +1 703 834 8209
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit our Online Quality Resources Website and Bookstore at
http://www.quality.org
=============================================================================
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:37:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bill Casti (System Admin)"
To: iso9000-3@quality.org
Subject: Message from Ricardo Mejiaz (fwd)
NOTE: If you want the PDF file, please contact Mr. Mejiaz directly at his
email address (below) and request him to send it to you. Do NOT reply to
the list address or to me.
Bill
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:50:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ricardo Mejiaz
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: 2king@loxinfo.co.th
Hi.
Actually i am implementing QMS for our software develoment company.
I am sending you an attach [DELETED FOR EXCEEDING MAX. ATTACHMENT SIZE
LIMITS] with a PDF file containing the ISO Gap Check
List for ISO 9000-3.
I hope this be useful to you.
If you can send me a copy of your Quality Manual or any other information
I can use in our process, i will appreciate it.
Any other subject i can help you. feel free to ask.
Regards,
Ricardo Mejia
Software Quality Assurance Engineer
- ---smarn srisukh <2king@loxinfo.co.th> wrote:
>
> Dear chris,
> 1. Where can I get the good check list for 9000-3 (1997) ?
> 2. I am implementing the QMS for Hard ware/soft ware com. by using both
> ISO9001 and 9000-3 (1997) . Mainly,
> ISO9001 is straight forward for Hard ware part and 9001 with 9000-3 for
> soft ware part. The scoping is done in Quality
> manual , I founded that with ISO9000-3 (1997) It was very easy. Is
> there any one with similar experience implementing
> Hard ware/soft ware/ service project ?
> Smarn
> 2king@loxinfo.co.th
>
------------------------------
End of iso9000-3-digest V2 #7
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